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grendal1
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Pathfinder

#1 Postby grendal1 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:04 pm

I did a quick search for "Pathfinder" and didn't find too much...has anyone done any Pathfinder conversions? My group are looking to start a Pathfinder campaign...but not big fans of the rules (too much crunchy...love the fluff though).

I posted this to the Pathfinder "conversion" board and got this response:

"You're pretty much on your own."
:oops:

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#2 Postby Kythkyn » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:23 pm

Just use the fluff then. I mean, what are you looking to convert crunchwise in specific?
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#3 Postby fanchergw » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:29 pm

I gotta agree with Kythkyn here. Core rules (Deluxe) and maybe Fantasy Companion should provide you with all the rules-stuff you need. Might be worth checking out Gruffalo Crumble's Savaged Rise of the Runelords game story posts for some inspiration and ideas. I'm sure he'd be willing to share any rules mods he might be using.

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What do you mean by converting Pathfinder?

#4 Postby Utgardloki » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:44 pm

Pathfinder is a rule setting, so I don't see converting it into another rule setting, except maybe converting some of the elements of the game, such as the Inquisitor class.

On the other hand, there is a setting of Golaron, which is the official Pathfinder setting. I could see converting that into Savage Worlds.

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Re: What do you mean by converting Pathfinder?

#5 Postby GlassJaw » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:18 pm

Utgardloki wrote:Pathfinder is a rule setting, so I don't see converting it into another rule setting


Definitely this. You choose Pathfinder because you want the (IMO) bloated crunch with all the fixings. You choose SW because you want a fast-paced action-packed system that strikes a perfect balance between crunch and rules-light.

Another thing to remember is that the pacing between a d20-based system and SW is completely different. d20 combat takes forever, and the module are written with that pace in mind. The amount of combat in a d20/PF module most likely won't feel appropriate for a SW game.

On the other hand, there is a setting of Golaron, which is the official Pathfinder setting. I could see converting that into Savage Worlds.


Also this. While Golarion is pretty standard fantasy fare, it's well written, has amazing art, and a ton of content and source material. [/quote]
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#6 Postby Kythkyn » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:42 pm

Is it really worth splitting hairs?

I am pretty sure we all knew that he meant the setting, considering he said the "fluff". The rules books don't have any honest fluff, they have some sprinklings of fluff and a bunch of mechanics.
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#7 Postby Utgardloki » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:24 am

Kythkyn wrote:Is it really worth splitting hairs?

I am pretty sure we all knew that he meant the setting, considering he said the "fluff". The rules books don't have any honest fluff, they have some sprinklings of fluff and a bunch of mechanics.


I'm hoping the OP comes back to this thread to elaborate. The rules books do have a lot of "fluff" in that each class has its characteristics.

So he might be thinking in terms of how you make a plausible Inquisitor group in Savage Worlds, or how to do a magic system so a SW spellcaster works like a Sorcerer or Wizard in Pathfinder, or something like that.

Myself, I've been doing some thinking about the Prestige Class concept. There are a few concepts in the setting I'm working on for which Prestige Classes would work well, but since they don't exist in Savage Worlds, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

Pathfinder also has Archetypes, and Masterworks and all sorts of other things introduced into the rulebooks which could be ported over into a Savage Worlds game, if someone wanted to figure out how to do it.

But first one would have to understand the purpose. If, for example, one wanted to bring the Archetype concept to Savage Worlds, what are you actually thinking? Maybe a Pit Fighter background which offers a few skills and edges, like the saven backgrounds I developed for my Vara campaign? Or maybe a collection of edges that PCs can take as they advance? Or just have some way to call oneself a "Pit Fighter"

If it is the last question, the easiest way is probably to say "I am Ulgar, the Pit Fighter" and just give him the skills and edges that would be useful for fighting in the pits.

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#8 Postby grendal1 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:39 am

By Fluff I mostly meant the world...but Pathfinder does take the basic D&D stuff and give it a cool twist so I would like to port over some of the trappings too like the variant classes.
I will be using the Wizards and Warriors expansion as well as taking some stuff from Beasts and Barbarians (the "between adventures" table is great)

Now I just need to figure out which Adventure path to run...any suggestions on which one would work best with SW?

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#9 Postby grendal1 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:41 am

And what spell system should I use...the basic one doesn't seem very "D&D" to me...

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#10 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:19 am

grendal1 wrote:And what spell system should I use...the basic one doesn't seem very "D&D" to me...

The basic magic system is very "Sorcerer". You know a few powers, and can mix them up throughout the day, until you run out of juice. It does the "spontaneous casters" very, very well.

It's not great for the prepared casters. There are a few ways to do that, but my favorite was a suggestion from these forums. http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33955#333865
It takes a few more posts between Merlyn and myself to get all the details, but it's pretty solid.
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#11 Postby sablemage » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:37 pm

You could also look at alchemists from the Fantasy Companion or Beasts & Barbarians.

Mechanically, these are similar to D&D spellcasters in that they must select and prepare spells before the adventure, which can then be unleashed as an action; and they need material components (their potions) to cast.

However, if you use this approach, you'd need to drop the rule that anyone can use a potion.

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#12 Postby Utgardloki » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:17 pm

grendal1 wrote:By Fluff I mostly meant the world...but Pathfinder does take the basic D&D stuff and give it a cool twist so I would like to port over some of the trappings too like the variant classes.


To get the idea of the variant classes you might want to consider something like this:

The archetypes can easily be describe as edges. A person takes the Detective edge, for example, and gets a couple of appropriate benefits.

One idea I would consider, is to have different levels of spellcasting. If you want to cast an 8th level spell for example, it's not enough to simply spend 8 power points: you have to have the Archmage edge. To get the Archmage edge, you have to have the Wizard edge. To get the Wizard edge, you have to have the Mage edge. To get the Mage edge, you have to have the Wizard Background edge.

This limits the use of very high level spells because of the investment in advances required to cast them. In addition, of course, these edges should also be limited by SW rank (Novice, Hero, Legendary, etc). But if the suggestion in the previous paragraph is adopted, then it is not enough to simply be a Legendary character, but you also will have had to make the requisite investment in advances.

Someone will let me know if I just gave you bad advice. I'm basing it on what I read in the BESM D20 manual which says that the vast power of 9th level spells is balanced not so much be any sort of advancement point cost, but by the amount of dedication it takes to get them -- in Pathfinder you really have to concentrate on getting those spells if you want them.

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#13 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:02 pm

Utgardloki wrote:If you want to cast an 8th level spell for example, it's not enough to simply spend 8 power points: you have to have the Archmage edge.

High level D&D spells break down into two general types:
1) Level-appropriate combat effects (damage, status effects, etc.). These need no translation - savage powers are equally effective at any rank.
2a) Plot Devices. Wish, Miracle, Gate, and all the other spells that let you fundamentally reshape the setting are as close to true plot devices as I've ever seen in player control.
2b) Superpowers by another name. Persistent Stoneskin, Overland Flight, Truesight, etc. are all spells that give you some of the powers of Superman for the entire day. These are not always appropriate for the campaign.

For type 1, there's no problem. Meteor Swarm is full-power Blast with style (3d6, Large Burst Template, 6 PP). Delayed-blast Fireball is Blast on a Held action.

Type 2a is a category of power that is more difficult. First, you have to decide if those are powers you actually want your players to gain access to. Do you want a wizard to be able to speak a small keep into existence, or lock away a plain of existence for 10,000 years? I don't, but I'm not the master of all gaming. :mrgreen:
If you do want these kinds of abilities, I'd recommend keeping a restraint on them by use of specialized ritual rules - rituals that require specialized components, locations, and times (celestial confluences, blood moons, equinox, etc.). The Horror Companion has excellent ritual rules, but the Dramatic Task rules can be a handy guideline for creating your own (if you don't want to shell out for that book).

Type 2b means that you're using the Super Powers Companion. Go ahead and use that book with "magic" trappings for most powers.

Good luck!
Last edited by ValhallaGH on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#14 Postby GruffaloCrumble » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:21 am

Having run about 16 sessions of a Savage Worlds conversion of Rise of the Runelords (the first Pathfinder Adventure Path) and 4 sessions of Savaged Skull & Shackles, I can honestly advise you that converting Pathfinder content to SW is a piece of cake. I'm posting from work at the moment, but I will elaborate on this post later! :D

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#15 Postby Sadric » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:25 am

I guess the problem with spells is the feel of diversity of a D&D spellcaster.

You know, each D&D spellcaster has x spells that does damage in a little bit different way. Or buff some player in a little bit different area.

You need to translate this in a Savage way.
One way I have used is giving each mage a different number of trappings, based on knowlegde(Magic) or something similiar. Often I used that d4 gives one trapping per spell, d6 two trappings and so on until d12 gives five trappings per spell.
Then look at your spell list.
measly three spells?
Lets say you have knowledge magic d8, so three trappings per spell, this means 9 different spell trappings!

So lets say you have bolt, armor and boost/lower attribute:
so with dimly knowledge of old D&D spells a quick example:
Bolt:
Melfs acid arrow: only one bolt, doing 2d6 damage, second round 1d6 continuing damage
magic missile: max. 3 bolts, Only 2d4 damage, but +1 on casting,
Bigbys fist: one bolt, 2d6 damage, does 1d4-size inch knockback.

Armor
Barkskin does max. +2 armor. A raise simply doubles the duration
Ghostarmor protect against incorporal attacks and gives magic resistance
Fireshild protect against front only, but does 2d4 damage against attacker.

boost/lower attribute
Knock boost pick lock, count as as lockpicks
bear strenght boost strength
warriors blessing boost fighting, a raise gives a +1 boost to strenght instead +2 to fighting.

You could create edges that gives more trappings or give an additional free trapping each rank.
Or you could simply limit trappings by rank. For example, 3d6 version of damage spells or large burst templates need seasoned rank.
So a powerfull spell like meteor storm (3d6 Blast in large burst template) is maybe limited to Heroic rank.


Another helfpull advice for a D&D feel of spells is a sort of small, useless but free spell.
Anything you could do with some work you could do with magic, make a spellcasting roll and only if the roll fail you have to pay one powerpoint.

For example, drying or cleaning clothes, make a candlelike flame, use your notice skill to get a hunch about the beings in the next room.

I even allowed spending a powerpoint to use magic in a smart trick.
You know, a swarm of summoned ember as smart trick.

With a little more different trappings and leeway in description of "normal" skill use you could inject a little bit more of D&D feel in Savage worlds.


Another idea, that I didnt try yet, is to memorize your trappings.

You know, how the D&D spells memorizing work.

You have your three spells, but have a list of possible trappings (like above, but even more different trappings) and could change the trappings each morning. A different trapping/spell for each rank. So a seasoned spellcaster have two different trappings of bolt. A legendary would have five different trappings of bolt. The numbers of spells is still restricted trough powerpoints, but the trappings are memorized.

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#16 Postby grendal1 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:36 am

please please elaborate!

the group is leaning towards just running straight pathfinder. The end of our CoC game is tonight and we will talk about it...hopefully I can talk them into it.
Last edited by grendal1 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#17 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:08 am

Are you running it, or is someone else?

If you're the GM then you can always say, "Fine, but I'm not running Pathfinder. That system has burned me out, and I'll take a break as a player if we use the system. If you just want to use the world, I'll run it as a Savage campaign."
This gives them a clearer choice. A game you run with a system they aren't thrilled about (yet!), or one of them gets to step up and run something (that he'll learn to hate) while you get to sit back a be a player for a while. :-D It's good to be a player from time to time. You can learn a lot, refresh your GM batteries, and improve your perspective as a GM.


Good luck!
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#18 Postby grendal1 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:12 am

"Are you running it, or is someone else? "

not sure yet...my wife and I just got together with some new friends after trying to find players for years...we haven't done roleplaying (outside of Gencon) in many years.

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#19 Postby Kythkyn » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:23 am

grendal1 wrote:"Are you running it, or is someone else? "

not sure yet...my wife and I just got together with some new friends after trying to find players for years...we haven't done roleplaying (outside of Gencon) in many years.

If you and your wife both play, why not play together when you can't/couldn't find other players?
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#20 Postby grendal1 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:36 am

I was actually think of putting some skirmish groups together (just got some prepainted Arcane legions) and trying showdown.


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