Can I rule that ad cards are Jokers?

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Kodyax
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Can I rule that ad cards are Jokers?

#1 Postby Kodyax » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:49 am

I recently bought a Bicycle brand pack of cards at the local Target because the backs of the cards as advertised on the tin looked neat to me. When I finally opened it up and looked inside I saw there were only 2 jokers but there 2 other cards in the back that were advertisements for other stuff in the Bicycle cards brand. When using this deck I am thinking of shuffling those ad cards in with the other cards and treating them as Jokers when they turn up in the turn order. My reasoning for this is so to give the players as much of an opportunity to be dealt a Joker as possible. Or am I stretching things too far? If this has to be moved to another board, my apologies in advance.

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#2 Postby Vinzent » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:12 am

No. This is not okay! This is an abomination!

The Hensely Inquisition has been notified and they will descend upon you like a swarm of hornets, devouring your sinful flesh through sanctified and flossed fangs. You shall know exquisite agonies as your body parts mingle with a thousands Tums within the fiery pit of their bellies. And as your agonized soul is torn to shreds and mashed together again like kneaded dough that screams the sounds of a billion kittens in a blender, Savage Mephistopheles TM will peel away all of your happy memories with a rusty pen knife until your soul is fit for only one purpose - to work at the retail souvenir shop in Six Flags Over Hell!

You know, on second thought it would probably be okay.

Go right ahead. :twisted:
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#3 Postby Vinzent » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:18 am

On a more serious note- The only issue I see is that you have the mixed joy of pulling a rules card. They aren't very attractive.

Might I suggest you getthese?

The deck has really nice artwork, two jokers, and four extra cards (marked with X's) that you can use for whatever. You can toss the two jokers out and use the X cards for your jokers instead. That way at least your players are pulling interesting cards.
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#4 Postby Kodyax » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:30 am

It didn't come with a rules card, this was just a special edition poker deck. But I will look at the link for the funnies.

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#5 Postby Maine » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:59 am

You're always welcome to do as you like, but keep in mind:

If you have 1 or more PCs with Quick, and once a couple of them get Level Headed (or even Improved Level Headed) you'll find the PCs getting a lot of cards. By about midway through seasoned, 5 PCs can find themselves drawing 7-8 cards per turn, which gives a good chance of drawing a Joker.

If you make them easier to draw, then they may lose that 'magic' feeling when you get one. However, it will make the Wild Edges more useful. It could definitely have some value for a 'high Wilds' flavor game.

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#6 Postby Kodyax » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:06 am

I'm also trying for high octane type play. It is something to consider. Although I plan on letting players describe how awesome something could be if that +2 pushes them over that edge they might need to do something really fantastic. The idea is to make the game be as much like a summer blockbuster as possible.

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#7 Postby Maine » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:33 am

For High Octane, I'd suggest going benny heavy instead, and maybe do something akin to the Deadlands Fate Chips: different colored bennies have different effects, and may be present in different amounts. Put them in a bag/bowl and people blindly draw their bennies from this.

White (15 of these) = Normal
Red (10) = Like White, but gives gives +2 to the roll (the original, the reroll, and any other rerolls from other bennies; does not stack).
Blue (5) = Can be spent as Red, OR can be spent to make your initiative card equivalent to a Joker, with all associated benefits (no shuffle takes place)
Green (2) = Can be spent as Blue, or can be removed from the game for the session (do NOT return to the benny pool) to allow every player (including yourself) to draw a Benny.

If you want a teamwork heavy game, allow Blue to also be spent on teammates, or even ONLY on teammates.

Also consider these other setting rules (from Triple Ace Games 'Daring Tales' series):

- At the start of a combat, any PC who is below their starting Bennies automatically gets one
- If you spend a benny to Soak and successfully soak all the wounds, you get that Benny back (but not any spent on rerolls to the Soak)

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#8 Postby Vinzent » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:34 am

FYI, increasing the amount of Jokers in the deck also increases the chances that your villains will draw Jokers.
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#9 Postby TheLoremaster » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:38 am

I once played in a pulp game that used a deck of cards with 3 Jokers in it, and it seemed to work fine. What you need to keep in mind is math. :)

The odds of one player pulling a Joker out of a deck of 54 cards is 2/54 = 1/27 = 0.037 repeating, or around 3.7%. 1 Joker out of a deck of 56 cards would be 4/56 = 1/14 = 0.0714... = 7.14% ... double the chance. If you have a lot of players and bad guys, or any of them have Level Headed or Quick, those Jokers are going to come up a hell of a lot more often, and the Wild Card Edges will be considerably more valuable. But it would probably be lots of fun!

On an unrelated note: why hasn't someone done an odds generator similar to AnyDice but for decks of cards? *sigh*
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#10 Postby Kristian Serrano » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:26 am

I'm actually using double-back cards in some of my decks (e.g., Bicycle Dragon Backs) in a similar way. Instead of acting as a Joker, they provide an automatic success for a single Trait Test on that turn. If someone wants to make multiple Trait Tests, only one is an automatic success. The card is removed from the deck for the rest of the session after it has been drawn.

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#11 Postby Cryonic » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:45 am

TheLoremaster wrote:The odds of one player pulling a Joker out of a deck of 54 cards is 2/54 = 1/27 = 0.037 repeating, or around 3.7%. 1 Joker out of a deck of 56 cards would be 4/56 = 1/14 = 0.0714... = 7.14% ... double the chance. If you have a lot of players and bad guys, or any of them have Level Headed or Quick, those Jokers are going to come up a hell of a lot more often, and the Wild Card Edges will be considerably more valuable. But it would probably be lots of fun!

On an unrelated note: why hasn't someone done an odds generator similar to AnyDice but for decks of cards? *sigh*


Because unlike dice, the odds for a deck of cards isn't completely random with each draw. It heavily depends on what has already been drawn. Example: The stats you showed for a chance of drawing a joker are based on the decks being completely full. But the odds change as each card is drawn and the deck shrinks. Eventually the odds can actually rise to a 100% chance of drawing something, like when you're down to the last cards of the deck and haven't seen a single joker the whole time.

That can't happen with dice. Every roll of every die is wholly separate from the last roll done. There is no limit to the number of 20s that can come up on a d20. There is never a 100% chance that you'll roll a given number based on the rolls done before.

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#12 Postby SavageGamerGirl » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:31 am

How about looking at it from a different angle?

Instead of letting the ad cards be more Jokers, why not say if you draw an ad card, you discard it immediately and draw 2 more cards, taking the better of those two?

Or, make the ad cards into anti-Jokers. Draw an ad card and you have to discard it, drawing two more cards and taking the worst of the two. :twisted:
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#13 Postby ghostman » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:41 am

Vinzent wrote:On a more serious note- The only issue I see is that you have the mixed joy of pulling a rules card. They aren't very attractive.

Might I suggest you getthese?

The deck has really nice artwork, two jokers, and four extra cards (marked with X's) that you can use for whatever. You can toss the two jokers out and use the X cards for your jokers instead. That way at least your players are pulling interesting cards.


I have these decks! (One red back, one black back).

Here another way to use the Serpents (X cards)? I have an idea, but I haven't implemented / tested it yet. I am making them a 10.5 (higher than a 10, lower than a jack) and you get a benny to use on your turn. If you don't use it, it goes away.
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#14 Postby TheLoremaster » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:38 am

Cryonic wrote:Because unlike dice, the odds for a deck of cards isn't completely random with each draw. It heavily depends on what has already been drawn. Example: The stats you showed for a chance of drawing a joker are based on the decks being completely full. But the odds change as each card is drawn and the deck shrinks. Eventually the odds can actually rise to a 100% chance of drawing something, like when you're down to the last cards of the deck and haven't seen a single joker the whole time.

That can't happen with dice. Every roll of every die is wholly separate from the last roll done. There is no limit to the number of 20s that can come up on a d20. There is never a 100% chance that you'll roll a given number based on the rolls done before.

True, but surely someone out there is willing to rise to the challenge. Does such a thing exist?
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#15 Postby Cryonic » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:10 pm

TheLoremaster wrote:
Cryonic wrote:Because unlike dice, the odds for a deck of cards isn't completely random with each draw. It heavily depends on what has already been drawn. Example: The stats you showed for a chance of drawing a joker are based on the decks being completely full. But the odds change as each card is drawn and the deck shrinks. Eventually the odds can actually rise to a 100% chance of drawing something, like when you're down to the last cards of the deck and haven't seen a single joker the whole time.

That can't happen with dice. Every roll of every die is wholly separate from the last roll done. There is no limit to the number of 20s that can come up on a d20. There is never a 100% chance that you'll roll a given number based on the rolls done before.

True, but surely someone out there is willing to rise to the challenge. Does such a thing exist?


Yes and no. Strategies exist for the various card games based on the game being played, the number of decks being used, etc... but they are very situational. The odds for hands are completely different for 5 card stud vs Texas Hold'em. Same with Savage Worlds.

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#16 Postby ValhallaGH » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:22 pm

Maine wrote:If you make them easier to draw, then they may lose that 'magic' feeling when you get one.

Not a problem. :-D The automatic interruption, +2 to trait and damage rolls, and activation of Wild Card Edges mean that Jokers never lose their magic (at least, not in my tables). Even when you see one or more each round of combat for the entire night, everyone still gets excited about the Joker.
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#17 Postby VonDan » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:12 pm

for a fun game you can declare that all cards are jokers and all evil minions are wild cards

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#18 Postby Kristian Serrano » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:26 pm

VonDan wrote:for a fun game you can declare that all cards are jokers and all evil minions are wild cards

Wild Cards, Jokers... Someone needs to create a Savage Worlds adaptation of Wild Cards using the Super Powers Companion.

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#19 Postby VonDan » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:28 pm

Amaril wrote:
VonDan wrote:for a fun game you can declare that all cards are jokers and all evil minions are wild cards

Wild Cards, Jokers... Someone needs to create a Savage Worlds adaptation of Wild Cards using the Super Powers Companion.


I was thinking that as I typed it, I have half the wild cards books but have not read them yet until i have them all in matching covers for under $1 each


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Cards

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#20 Postby Drue » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:07 pm

(brainstorming idea -- have not worked through potential game effects)

what if a player could spend a beni to make an ace equivalent to a joker?

or

what if a player could spend a beni to make another player’s ace equivalent to a joker?


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