Posse Composition (AV6, AV3, No Armor, No Armor, No Armor)

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Amdramnar
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Posse Composition (AV6, AV3, No Armor, No Armor, No Armor)

#1 Postby Amdramnar » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:58 am

HoE Classic

Heavy Cyborg - AV6 fully enclosed
Infiltrator - AV3
Templar - No Armor
Junker - No Armor
Non Combatant - No Armor

I am slowly working up situations to try and challenge the group combat wise. Any attack that can get through the heavy cyborg armor is likely to kill an of the other characters.

Any suggestions to add to my toolkit of things to throw at them would be helpful.

So far I have used the mutant power that does 3d6 and bypasses armor so it is a safe attack that works on everyone but dont want to overdo that power.

I am reading though books to see what kind of weapons and powers are out there.

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#2 Postby Clint » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:53 pm

How about just plain old Armor Piercing ammo?

It would actually be slightly less effective against the unarmored folks. Of course not all the foes need to use it, but if some of them have it, they will definitely be the ones to target the armored ones.
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ValhallaGH
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#3 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:09 pm

AP ammunition (Core rules and Wasted West book). Rated 1-5, ignores that many levels of armor (and all Light Armor), and does 1 die less against unarmored targets.

So, AP 3 bullets from the NA Assault Rifle would do 2d4 to the Heavy Can, 3d8 to the Infiltrator, and 2d8 to the humans.
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Ray
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#4 Postby Ray » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 pm

No, it would do 3D4 against a Human, 3D8 to a Infiltrator, and 3D4 against the Heavy Can.

My old group's response to a Heavy Can would be explosives. And lots of them.
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#5 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:12 am

Ray wrote:it would do 3D4 against a Human,

How?

My reading says "drop one die of damage when hitting unarmored targets". 3d8 minus 1 die is 2d8.

Ray wrote:3D4 against the Heavy Can.

How? Each AV reduces the damage die type by one step, and then removes a die until out of AV or out of dice. 6 - 3 = 3. 3d8 -1> 3d6 -2> 3d4 -3> 2d4.
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"Not against a Servitor."
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Re: Posse Composition (AV6, AV3, No Armor, No Armor, No Armo

#6 Postby helbent4 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:07 am

Amdramnar wrote:
I am slowly working up situations to try and challenge the group combat wise. Any attack that can get through the heavy cyborg armor is likely to kill an of the other characters.



Hello Amdramnar,

Perhaps have some kind of power or weapon that immobilises or blinds the target might even the playing field? Say, someone throws a riot-control foam grenade that puts the tin can on its back. Or an EMP attack of some kind that scrambles it's controls or interface? If there's a fight inside a damaged structure, the heaviest might go through the floor, someone could lure it into a pit trap, hit it with a paint bomb so it's blinded, etc.

Tony
Last edited by helbent4 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Amdramnar
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#7 Postby Amdramnar » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:13 am

Thanks for the ideas.

I am hoping to avoid overuse of AP ammunition but since is does less damage against the rest of the party then it is a good idea.

My understanding of explosions is armor that fully encloses a person works against Burst and Explosives. Heavy cans armor I believe fully encloses the cyborg so works agains massive damage, explosions, and burst type damage.

the paint, pit traps, and poor floors is a good idea too, thanks.

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#8 Postby ValhallaGH » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:56 am

Explosions:

The explosion rules went through several iterations, but they break down into two categories. I think of these categories as "Invincible Cyborgs" and "Black Knight".

Invincible Cyborgs: Roll Damage, determine wounds, subtract 1 wound per full-body AV, distribute wounds across hit locations. This method tends to make the Combine Automatons (Size 8, AV 3) immune to most explosives, since they need to deal 32 or more damage to inflict any wounds at all.

Black Knight: Roll d6 (-1 per blast radius) hit locations, apply damage against the armor in that location, determine wounds. This method tends to be a lot more dangerous (taking 5+ wounds to three hit locations), but things like Kevlar Vests and Light Armor actually matter. You get a lot of severed limbs, but it's also better for killing cyborgs and automatons (4d10 [average 24] applied generally becomes 4d4 [average 12] against 1d6 hit locations - which means that instead of average 0 wounds to an automaton, it averages 1 wound per hit location, and the same location can be struck repeatedly).
I started thinking of this a the Black Knight method after the second time I saw a PC end up as a head and a torso after the explosion damage was dealt.
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#9 Postby helbent4 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:03 pm

Amdramnar wrote:the paint, pit traps, and poor floors is a good idea too, thanks.


Hello Amdramnar,

My pleasure. I don't have a good enough off-the-cuff grasp of the rules to add to the "mechanical" solutions. An asymmetrical approach whereby the borg's capabilities were degraded or worked against it without taking out the rest of the party seemed appropriate!

There was a great classic article in Dragon #127 titles "Tucker's Kobolds", whereby a player reminisced about some very tough and feisty opponents for a 5th to 12th level dungeoneering party... the lowly Kobold. At the time I remembered thinking these were like "little green Viet Cong", in their element and deadly.

http://rpgcharacters.wordpress.com/2012 ... lds-redux/

In a sense, your problem is that HoE can encourage a lack of subtlety due to the power level. The power level is greater than Classic Deadlands, not unreasonably but cranked up a notch or two at least. Weaker beings, be they human or other, therefore have to be smarter to survive. When a borg shows up they will make a point of targeting it if they can identify it for what it is and understand the threat. If they've never run across an actual borg before the enemy force might still have some kind of contingency plan dealing with tough opponents.

The player might complain about being singled out for attention, but then they presumably did choose to play one of the toughest types of critter in the Wasted West! (This is not to criticise, merely point out you pays your money and takes your chances.)

Tony

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#10 Postby King Snarf » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:16 pm

Don't concern yourself with challenging them in combat; go lateral and come up with brain puzzlers and mysteries for a session or two. Throw in a haunting or something similar.

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Re

#11 Postby Fists-of-Dorn » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:10 am

There are plenty of attacks that involve non-damaging attacks, though the most effective of these are often limited to arcane sources.
The Cult of Doom has access to very high damage attacks, attacks like Synaptic Static, splendiferous tools like Voice o' Doom and the like to make those armored brutes pee their casings and run away.
Villainous Sykers can mess with characters in so many ways that the players might develop a deep hatred for Sykers in general.


Mundane fights may not always be a "kill or be killed" situation either. Considering the scarcity of supplies in the setting, enterprising groups of bandits might go straight for the posse's gear before high-tailing it out of the area.
Organized groups might manufacture/scavenge smoke grenades and infravision goggles (make sure not to use improved smoke which would negate the use of their goggles) to smoke bomb a camp site and rush in snagging as much loot as they can carry then hop in their ride and beat a hasty retreat back to their own camp.
Less technologically capable groups may look to distract the heavy can (I am presuming the infiltrator has a working infiltrator suite here and is basically indistinguishable from a normal human) from the rest of the posse. Once having pulled the major threat away some of the bandits ambush the others and force them to give up their gear- saying that if they do so then they can keep their lives. Then they just have to get away from there before the heavy comes back with one-gun-fits-all-firefights LAPAT and vaporizes them.

Direct kill or be killed combats involving mundane foes is generally best accomplished with armor-piercing ammunition, environmental hazards (weak floors/walls, traps, in-clement weather, etc.), and foes willing to retreat/surrender when getting their butts hammered.


-Fists.


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