Summon Weapons

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Locotomo
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Summon Weapons

#1 Postby Locotomo » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:56 am

Hi,

I want to build a character like the soulknife in the pathfinder psionic handbook.
Is there no power or spell in savage worlds that can summon a sword or an item of any kind?

thx, loco

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Zadmar
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#2 Postby Zadmar » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:31 am

Martial Artist, with the trapping "you can summon a psionic knife at will".

Improved Martial Artist, with the trapping "your soulknife is now the size of a shortsword".

If you don't mind changing the rules a little, Brawler with the Strength requirement changed to Spirit, and Adept with the AB/skill requirement changed to Psionics.

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#3 Postby ValhallaGH » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:01 pm

AB (Superpowers) with the Smite power. Change the basic effect to summon a blade of energy (Str+d6), and the raise makes it better (Str+d6+2); for the inability to affect anything else, your GM might make it cheaper, last longer, or have an additional benefit (AP 2).

If you want to have additional powers, look at Arcane Background (Psionics).


Trappings, they can actually change how powers work. :-D
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#4 Postby Zadmar » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:26 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:AB (Superpowers) with the Smite power. Change the basic effect to summon a blade of energy (Str+d6), and the raise makes it better (Str+d6+2); for the inability to affect anything else, your GM might make it cheaper, last longer, or have an additional benefit (AP 2).

That's is another option, but not one I'd personally favour, for three reasons.

First, the Soulknife is a psionic class. If they take AB (Super Powers) then they won't also be able to take AB (Psionics). In theory they could still give their powers psionic trappings, but I think the Psionics AB (with its associated pros and cons) would better fit their concept.

Second, the Soulknife can summon their mind blade at will, so they have no need for other melee weapons. However Smite has a base duration of only 18 seconds, and even with additional PP the player could only maintain it for very short periods of time. Thus for practical purposes the player would probably end up carrying a regular weapon (and if they've already got it out, why bother with the mind blade?).

Finally, maintained powers are easily disrupted if you take damage or are shaken, and having your weapon vanish in the middle of melee combat can be disastrous, particularly when it requires an action to recast a new one.

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#5 Postby ValhallaGH » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:42 pm

Zadmar wrote:That's is another option, but not one I'd personally favour, for three reasons.

Valid reasons, but there's plenty of room for discussion.
First ...
The soulknife only does his soul blade. He can do other abilities, but the class's only innate "psionic ability" is the soul blade. By default, they cannot do anything else (soul blade and throw soul blade, or Smite and Bolt by my Superpowers suggestion).
And you could note the second paragraph, which was "do the same thing, but with Psionics". :wink:

Second ...
That's why I mentioned potential trapping changes, including increasing the base duration to 6 rounds (and it is rare for a Savage fight to go more than six rounds). :razz:
Similarly, for the trappings you gave for Martial Artist, I'd up the base damage to Str+d6. Why? Because, you don't always have it out - you can pull it as a free action, but your feet aren't dangerous because you can summon a spirit sword. :cool:

Third ...
Disruption is a good point, but it only matters when you get to the Maintenance time. During the base duration, the power cannot be disrupted (only dispelled).
Changing the base cost to 1 (due to the loss of ability to smite anything except your spirit blade) would mean that 1 point gets you 3 rounds of full use, and recasting gets you another three rounds.
Changing the base duration to 6 would mean that you don't have to worry about disruption until after six rounds, and the fight will likely be over by then.
Adding AP 2 to the spirit blade increases the odds that you'll end the fight before the duration runs out. :lol:


My point is that there are a lot of options. Which one works best depends upon which parts of the class are most important to the player.
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#6 Postby Gammon23 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:04 am

Perhaps damage field? It does 2d6 +unarmed. When your opponent attacks the mind blade strikes back?

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#7 Postby ValhallaGH » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:05 am

Gammon23 wrote:Perhaps damage field? It does 2d6 +unarmed. When your opponent attacks the mind blade strikes back?

A valid idea. Not one I'd use, but a valid idea.
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#8 Postby Locotomo » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:52 am

A psionic knife or short sword would be inappropriate.
The player likes running around with a manga style 2h weapon :)

I just want to use another rpg system that is easier to run and the players don´t have to care about thousends of rules because we don´t play frequently enough.

Thank you very much for all the suggestions but somehow they are not what i was thinking about :)

At the moment i´m investigating the power from the super powers companion : Attack, Melee(2/lvl)

Maybe the character summons a greatsword without the option to enhance damage but with the modifiers :)

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#9 Postby farik » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:56 am

This is why the first rule of conversions is "Convert the setting not the rule."

Personally I would make a new Arcane Background with trappings specific to the how the class and powers are described and disregard how the mechanics worked in Pathfinder.

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#10 Postby ValhallaGH » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:16 am

Locotomo wrote:A psionic knife or short sword would be inappropriate.
The player likes running around with a manga style 2h weapon :)

So, they've got a big two-handed sword that does Strength+d6 damage. Or a psychic Spear that does Strength +d6.

What it looks like is one thing. What it does is another. :wink:


A warning: The Super Powers Companion is not compatible with the Core Rules power system. Use one or the other for PCs - mixing the two will lead to hurt feelings and player frustration in all but a handful of cases. This is why the AB (Superpowers) in the SPC completely replaces all instances of Arcane Background. :)
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#11 Postby ValhallaGH » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:25 am

Why not create a new edge?

Weird Edge

Soul Blade
Requirements: Novice, Spirit d8+, Fighting d8+
You can summon a psychic weapon, composed of pure willpower, to smite your enemies.
It takes an action to manifest the weapon, and may require a Spirit roll if the circumstances are especially prohibitive (GM's call). The weapon manifests as a solidified energy but functions as a real weapon that does Strength + d8 damage. If the weapon is disarmed, it disappears and can be manifested again with an action.
This weapon can benefit from the Quick Draw edge.

Improved Soul Blade
Requirements: Seasoned, Soul Knife, Arcane Background (Psionics)
Your soul blade has grown in power. It now deals Strength + d8 + 2 damage, and has a range increment of 4/8/16 as a Throwing weapon.


Groovy?
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"... We're all gonna die."

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#12 Postby Locotomo » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:10 pm

That sounds deadly !

Thank you :)

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#13 Postby Locotomo » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:12 pm

I just realised that we have to change the requirements a little bit :

Soul Blade
Requirements: Novice, Spirit d8+, Fighting d8+ ,Arcane Background (Psionics)

Improved Soul Blade
Requirements: Seasoned, Soul Blade


This will restrict that everybody takes Soul Blade as a starting edge :)

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#14 Postby jpk » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:59 pm

If the soul blade is really the defining feature of the class, you might be better off to modify the Arcane Background to AB (Soulknife) from AB (Psionics) by adding in the soul weapon as a free feature and lowering the number of starting powers by one or two.

I don't know the setting, but can you be a Soulknife without the soulblade doo-lolly?

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#15 Postby Zadmar » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:36 pm

The soulknife's weapon in D&D is "identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword", so I'm not sure how close this is supposed to be, or whether the player just wants to be able to conjure a weapon.

It could be a Professional Edge, along the same lines as Adept (for monks), Champion (for paladins), Holy Warrior (for clerics), etc. Building those concepts in SW requires an Arcane Background, so I don't think it would be unreasonable to have soulknifes work the same way.

But if you just want to be able to conjure a big weapon, you could use the Natural Weapons edge from Savage Armoury:

* Light (+1): The soulblade is weightless.
* Two-Handed (+1): Requires both hands. Inflicts d10 damage.

You'd conjure it in exactly the same way as drawing a weapon (so it would be a free action if you had Quick Draw).

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#16 Postby Locotomo » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:20 pm

What about this? (needs a tiny bit more tweaking :)


Arcane Backround (Soulknife)

--fill in description from the AB: Psionics backround --

Starting Powers: Soulblade, 1 (appropriate) power

Powers:

Soul Blade

Rank: Novice
Power Points: 2-6 (2, +2 per feature)
Range: Self
Duration: until it leaves the holding hand via dismiss, disarm, throw, etc.

You can summon a psychic weapon, composed of pure willpower, to smite your enemies.
The weapon manifests as a solidified energy but functions as a real weapon that does Strength + d8 damage. If the weapon is disarmed or thrown, it disappears.

Features :

1.Your soul blade has grown in power. It now deals Strength + d8 + 2 damage
2.Your soul blade has a range increment of 8/16/24 as a Throwing weapon.

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#17 Postby farik » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:19 pm

Locotomo wrote:What about this? (needs a tiny bit more tweaking :)


Arcane Backround (Soulknife)

--fill in description from the AB: Psionics backround --

Starting Powers: Soulblade, 1 (appropriate) power

Powers:

Soul Blade

Rank: Novice
Power Points: 2-6 (2, +2 per feature)
Range: Self
Duration: until it leaves the holding hand via dismiss, disarm, throw, etc.

You can summon a psychic weapon, composed of pure willpower, to smite your enemies.
The weapon manifests as a solidified energy but functions as a real weapon that does Strength + d8 damage. If the weapon is disarmed or thrown, it disappears.

Features :

1.Your soul blade has grown in power. It now deals Strength + d8 + 2 damage
2.Your soul blade has a range increment of 8/16/24 as a Throwing weapon.


This seems way too powerful

I would instead go with

Soul knife
Rank: Novice
Power Points: 2
Range: Self
Duration: 6 (1/round)
Trappings: A weapon of Psychic force develops in the wielder's hand.
While the spell is in effect, treat the weapon as Str+d6 weapon (or Str +d8 with a raise). The spell is disrupted if the psychic weapon is dismissed, dispelled, or disarmed.

Then would just add psychic knife trappings to the bolt power for throwing it.

i'd keep the arcane spell list short focusing on combat powers like deflections and bolt.

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#18 Postby Locotomo » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:23 am

Or like this :

Summon Weapon

Rank: Novice
Power Points: 1 for one hand, 2 for two hand weapons
Range: Self
Duration: 6 (1/round)
Trappings: A weapon of Psychic force develops in the wielder's hand.
Psionic Force Weapons are +2 AP by increasing the base cost by +1 power point.

Damage : Page 51 Savage Worlds Deluxe, Hand Weapons.

The spell is disrupted if the psychic weapon is dismissed, dispelled, or disarmed.

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#19 Postby farik » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:53 am

Locotomo wrote:Or like this :

Summon Weapon

Rank: Novice
Power Points: 1 for one hand, 2 for two hand weapons
Range: Self
Duration: 6 (1/round)
Trappings: A weapon of Psychic force develops in the wielder's hand.
Psionic Force Weapons are +2 AP by increasing the base cost by +1 power point.

Damage : Page 51 Savage Worlds Deluxe, Hand Weapons.

The spell is disrupted if the psychic weapon is dismissed, dispelled, or disarmed.


I could agree with this one but if you're going o allow any weapon I'd probably drop the duration back to 4 (1/round) to compensate for all of the utility benefits of different weapons in different situations.

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#20 Postby Locotomo » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:44 pm

I actually wanted to get rid of the duration restriction at all :)

I mean, whats the point when the power is weaker than carrying the
real weapon around?


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