What Kind of West is This?

All discussions about the new Noir setting for Deadlands and Savage Worlds. It's 1935 and the only thing that isn't in short supply is trouble.

Moderators: PEG Jodi, The Moderators

Message
Author
Thunderforge
Veteran
Posts: 954
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:13 am

What Kind of West is This?

#1 Postby Thunderforge » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:50 am

Deadlands is the Weird West.

Hell on Earth is the Wasted West.

Lost Colony is the Way Out West.

So what is Noir? I know that New Orleans isn't particularly "west", but with the companion there will be three new areas that are all in the west (plus Chicago). Any ideas for a catchy name for it? Or any Pinnacle staffers want to let us know what the "Veteran of the _____ West" is called?
Wild Card Creator: Any PDF, Any Setting, No Extra Cost.

The Elder Scrolls conversion and other fun creations.

User avatar
Clint
Site Admin
Posts: 19371
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:28 pm

Re: What Kind of West is This?

#2 Postby Clint » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:22 am

Thunderforge wrote:Deadlands is the Weird West.

Hell on Earth is the Wasted West.

Lost Colony is the Way Out West.

So what is Noir? I know that New Orleans isn't particularly "west", but with the companion there will be three new areas that are all in the west (plus Chicago). Any ideas for a catchy name for it? Or any Pinnacle staffers want to let us know what the "Veteran of the _____ West" is called?


It's not the West at all. That was kind of the point of the Kickstarter, to determine interest in a non-Western Deadlands setting.
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com

Bluegrass
Novice
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:07 pm

#3 Postby Bluegrass » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:07 am

Howy,

And I'd say the "Veteran of the Weird/Wasted/Way Out" would be something like "Hardboiled" or "Veteran of the Great War/Banana Wars".

Thanks,
Bluegrass

User avatar
doctorduckbutter
Seasoned
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:42 am
Location: Tampa

Re: What Kind of West is This?

#4 Postby doctorduckbutter » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:34 pm

Thunderforge wrote:Deadlands is the Weird West.

Hell on Earth is the Wasted West.

Lost Colony is the Way Out West.

So what is Noir? I know that New Orleans isn't particularly "west", but with the companion there will be three new areas that are all in the west (plus Chicago). Any ideas for a catchy name for it? Or any Pinnacle staffers want to let us know what the "Veteran of the _____ West" is called?



The "Not So West" West? :1eek1:

newForumNewName
Heroic
Posts: 1799
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Broomfield, CO

#5 Postby newForumNewName » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:39 pm

I'm going to say it's directionless and is just Hard-Boiled. So instead of a "Veteran o' the Weird/Wasted West" it would just be called "Hard-Boiled."

See what I did there?
"I had a whole bunch of advice for you but got ninja'd by newForumNewName. I'd just do what he says." -- 77IM

"While nFNN could be less of a jerk about how he says what he says, what he says is essentially correct." -- ValhallaGH

User avatar
VonDan
Legendary
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:36 am
Contact:

#6 Postby VonDan » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:43 pm

The west side of the big easy

CitizenX
Novice
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:52 pm

#7 Postby CitizenX » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:06 pm

Fun fact about New Orleans, the West Bank is east of the city.

User avatar
Cutter XXIII
Legendary
Posts: 2949
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:08 am
Location: Village of Rock, MD

#8 Postby Cutter XXIII » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:48 pm

I'm reading Hard-Boiled: An Anthology of American Crime Stories (Eds. Bill Pronzini & Jack Adrian), because the "hard-boiled" literary genre is the precursor to film noir. I found a telling passage in the introduction:

Although the hard-boiled story as we know it today was born in the 1920s, hard-boiled writing did not spring fully fledged from that anti-social maelstrom of the years between the two world wars. It was a melange of different styles and different genres, and its heroic figures can be traced back a hundred years earlier, to both the myth and the reality of the western frontier. The history of the United States abounds with larger-than-life loners whose accomplishments, whose very survival, depended on an uncompromising toughness and a willingness to enter into struggles against seemingly insurmountable odds: Daniel Boone, Kit Carson, Davy Crockett, Jim Bridger, Mike Fink, Jim Bowie. Such rugged individualists inspired the creation of mythical heroes—Paul Bunyan, for instance—and of fictional men of action. Both James Fenimore Cooper's Nattty Bumppo and Herman Melville's Ahab are hunters driven by forces outside themselves, and in that sense are perfect paradigms of the modern private eye. Even Mark Twain's Huck Finn, and certainly Jack London's Wolf Larsen, have elements of the hard-boiled knight in their makeup.

Similarly, American hisory is filled with scoundrels and outlaws; persons motivated by greed, lust, and power; persons who hold human values and human life in little regard: William Bonney, John Wesley Hardin, Belle Starr, Herman W. Mudgett, and all the little-known and long-forgotten grifters, gamblers, confidence swindlers, whores, thieves, and paid assassins who inhabited the towns and cities, followed the railroads westward, and flocked to the gold-mining camps. These figures likewise inspired nineteenth- and early-twentieth-century authors, among them Mark Twain, Bret Harte, Frank R. Stockton, Upton Sinclair, and O. Henry. They, too, are the antecedents of the individuals who live in the pages of the modern noir story.


The intro then goes on to talk about dime novels, and how they held not only stories of the frontier but also New York City's mean streets, and how those stories became "hard-boiled fiction" in the pulps that came later (and put the dime novels out of style and out of business).

Anyway, it struck me as neat to think of the Noir genre as the direct descendant of Western tales. What links the Noir story most solidly with the Western tale is that both of them are quintessentially American art forms/genres.
Matthew Cutter
Deadlands Big Bug (Brand Manager)
Pinnacle Entertainment Group, Inc.

Gardensnake
Novice
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:55 pm

#9 Postby Gardensnake » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:11 pm

Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.

William

ValhallaGH
Legendary
Posts: 6412
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:15 pm

#10 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:09 am

Gardensnake wrote:Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.

William

And both are copies of Kurosawa's film Yojimbo.

Is it any wonder that Japan loves the American Western, or hard-boiled Noir stories? They have their own, nearly identical tradition. :lol:

User avatar
DrErikSpangler
Novice
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:47 pm

#11 Postby DrErikSpangler » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:45 am

ValhallaGH wrote:
Gardensnake wrote:Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.

William

And both are copies of Kurosawa's film Yojimbo.

Is it any wonder that Japan loves the American Western, or hard-boiled Noir stories? They have their own, nearly identical tradition. :lol:


And Yojimbo was in turn inspired from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest and The Glass Key... :wink:

ValhallaGH
Legendary
Posts: 6412
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:15 pm

#12 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:05 am

DrErikSpangler wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:
Gardensnake wrote:Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.

William

And both are copies of Kurosawa's film Yojimbo.

Is it any wonder that Japan loves the American Western, or hard-boiled Noir stories? They have their own, nearly identical tradition. :lol:


And Yojimbo was in turn inspired from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest and The Glass Key... :wink:

One day, some scholar will track down the source story, and then we can all say "See! These 8 million stories are all the same." :lol:

newForumNewName
Heroic
Posts: 1799
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Broomfield, CO

#13 Postby newForumNewName » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:48 am

ValhallaGH wrote:
DrErikSpangler wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:
Gardensnake wrote:Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.

William

And both are copies of Kurosawa's film Yojimbo.

Is it any wonder that Japan loves the American Western, or hard-boiled Noir stories? They have their own, nearly identical tradition. :lol:


And Yojimbo was in turn inspired from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest and The Glass Key... :wink:

One day, some scholar will track down the source story, and then we can all say "See! These 8 million stories are all the same." :lol:

Basic plot: hero wants something, villain stands in the way of hero, hero overcomes villain, hero wins. Works for tragedy too: protagonist is villain.
"I had a whole bunch of advice for you but got ninja'd by newForumNewName. I'd just do what he says." -- 77IM



"While nFNN could be less of a jerk about how he says what he says, what he says is essentially correct." -- ValhallaGH

User avatar
Connallmac
Seasoned
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:00 pm
Location: Eastern IN

#14 Postby Connallmac » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:12 pm

newForumNewName wrote: Works for tragedy too: protagonist is villain.

From the Yakov Smirnoff school of criticism, "In Soviet Russia, protaganist is villain!".

newForumNewName
Heroic
Posts: 1799
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Broomfield, CO

#15 Postby newForumNewName » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:01 pm

Connallmac wrote:
newForumNewName wrote: Works for tragedy too: protagonist is villain.

From the Yakov Smirnoff school of criticism, "In Soviet Russia, protaganist is villain!".

Russian literature is the best example of this, actually. Anna Kerenina, off the top of my head.
"I had a whole bunch of advice for you but got ninja'd by newForumNewName. I'd just do what he says." -- 77IM



"While nFNN could be less of a jerk about how he says what he says, what he says is essentially correct." -- ValhallaGH

vag
Novice
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:59 am
Location: Trier, Germany

#16 Postby vag » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:35 pm

Being from Europe, New Orleans is "West" enough for me, so:

The "Hard-Boiled West" works for me...
--
Don´t stop me, I am just barely ahead of insanity!

User avatar
Sitting Duck
Legendary
Posts: 5370
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 6:47 am
Location: Podunk Junction, State of Confusion

#17 Postby Sitting Duck » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:04 am

ValhallaGH wrote:
DrErikSpangler wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:
Gardensnake wrote:Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.

William

And both are copies of Kurosawa's film Yojimbo.

Is it any wonder that Japan loves the American Western, or hard-boiled Noir stories? They have their own, nearly identical tradition. :lol:


And Yojimbo was in turn inspired from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest and The Glass Key... :wink:

One day, some scholar will track down the source story, and then we can all say "See! These 8 million stories are all the same." :lol:


There's probably a Shakespeare play (likely one of the lost ones) that uses the same plot. :P
The rabbit is cuddly. Kids like little cuddly sidekicks. I mean... The rabbit... It's a time-tested... Okay, the rabbit bites.
Blog: http://sittingduck1313.livejournal.com
The Gamer's Codex Reviewer

Thunderforge
Veteran
Posts: 954
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:13 am

#18 Postby Thunderforge » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:03 pm

vag wrote:The "Hard-Boiled West" works for me...

No alliteration sadly, but I'll take it. Deadlands Noir: The Hard-boiled West.
Wild Card Creator: Any PDF, Any Setting, No Extra Cost.



The Elder Scrolls conversion and other fun creations.

farik
Seasoned
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:45 pm

#19 Postby farik » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:05 pm

Have you consider the Eerie East or possibly even the Spooky South? ANd of course you can always use "Nawlins Noir"

User avatar
Ray
Veteran
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:14 pm
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

#20 Postby Ray » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:24 pm

Dustbowl Dreary?
"Grab a wackin' stick, boy! Time to learn these here undead some manners!" - Percy Spencer, to his Son, Kevin.


Return to “Deadlands Noir”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests