rying to balance humans, vampires, cyborgs and beastmen.

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runswithscissors
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rying to balance humans, vampires, cyborgs and beastmen.

#1 Postby runswithscissors » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:16 pm

Trying to balance humans, vampires, cyborgs and beastmen in a distopian future. going for a gritty anime world where vamps are infected with a virus. any ideas?

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#2 Postby ogbendog » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:21 pm

start with the race building rules.

humans and other races might be more than +2 races

you can also make a lot of classic vampire powers into racial edges

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#3 Postby sirdrasco » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:23 pm

Hummm, interesting.

Humans are as the core rule book.

Beastmen, might try the sundered skies for the wildlings, and size as a background edge.

Cyborgs are tougher since what powers do they have to start with. Prehaps using the balance race design give them something akin torobots and humans crossbreed form the core rules.

Vamps will have to balanced if they are a player choice, bennies versus penalties, have to consult books....
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#4 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:31 pm

ogbendog wrote:start with the race building rules.

humans and other races might be more than +2 races

you can also make a lot of classic vampire powers into racial edges

I'd start here as well.

Figure the baseline race power is +4. This gives you more room to play with for your non-humans and humans get a decent bump.


Example off the top of my head.
Humans: any edge, d6 in any two skills.

Beast Men: Size +1, Strength d8, Outsider-equivalent.

Vampires: "Construct", +1 Toughness, Low-light vision, d6 Strength, Habit (Major: blood), Outsider-equivalent.
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#5 Postby Zadmar » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:54 pm

Anime setting with beastmen, vampires and cyborgs? I'd use the Super Powers Companion.

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#6 Postby cpk666 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:37 am

I'd use RunePunk, if you have that book. Rename the Malakar & Ferren beastmen, the Overwoughts cyborgs, and the Andari vampires. Done!

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#7 Postby supercOntra » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:46 am

Gaslight has some pretty good beastmen
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#8 Postby Virgobrown72 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:32 pm

I think Gaslight's vampires might be a good start too...
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#9 Postby JWCarroll » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:22 pm

I was thinking of adapting Vampire the Masquerade (or the Requiem) to SW this morning and it occurred to me that most vampiric abilities could easily be represented with the Arcane Background (Super Powers) rules presented in the core book, perhaps with the regeneration of power points tied to drinking blood.

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#10 Postby runswithscissors » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:06 pm

Thank you for the imput. Cyborgs are a different kettle of fish. I was thinking plug and play with several stock types, almost as if they were different races that are interchangeable. maybe have upgrades if they spend a raise on a stat.

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#11 Postby raikenclw » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:54 pm

runswithscissors wrote:Cyborgs are a different kettle of fish.


For whatever it may be worth: I've always thought of cyborgs as "humans with built-in gear." If their mods can be hidden from all normal means of detection, they have a significant advantage in-game and need to pay for this in some fashion. But if they're obvious armored monsters, I don't make them pay anything extra - because the balance comes in other ways. The rest of the party gets to go into the bar and meet the contact . . . while their 'borg buddy stays out in the lot minding the car, since Security went positively apes**t when he approached the entrance.

If you allow "monster cyborgs" then I would probably follow the previous poster's suggestions, about using Supers rules. I say this because the sort of player who chooses to play this type of PC wants larger-than-life battles (whether or not the rest of the group is into it). A little story to illustrate:

I once ran a GURPS Space game where a player named Frank built the bad cyborg from Robocop 2. You know, the one with the brain which came from the drug king pin Cain (Tom Noonan)? The first big fight, Frank shouted "Hey! Watch this!" and set off at full speed, merrily ramming his way through cinderblock walls and steel doors as streams of bullets bounced off his thick armor. Of course, such endeavors left the rest of the party waaaayyyyyy back behind the resulting piles of rubble and choking dust. So Frank is all alone when he comes busting through Wall Umpteen . . . and "feels" a laser designator ping him.

Me: "Your sensors say it's [Some Technical Name Now Forgotten]."
Frank, startled: "Hey! That's an anti-vehicle weapon!"
Me, smiling: "You're 9 feet tall and 1200 pounds. You ARE a vehicle."

After the dust settled and a truce with the opposing mercs was arranged, the rest of the party returned to the scene with a tow truck and collected Frank's remains, which were eventually reassembled. Not that this taught Frank anything. The next time he blew up, it was because he attempted a standup fight against the dropship from Aliens . . .
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#12 Postby runswithscissors » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:41 am

The cyborgs will have limits. most will have tradeoffs. str/ag/vig will be dependent on the chassis. war-form will be strong, human analog more agile, spyder-form more vigor and extra hauling capacity. bodies will be different prices and war-forms will have trouble getting into bars and secure areas. cost will also help balance them. everyone else buys a cool gun and they have to pay for a new arm. also if they abuse it, there could be a parts shortage and they get a cheap loaner or a "light duty" model. if they get a raise and boost a stat. based on the chassis, they will have to "upgrade" a specific "body".

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#13 Postby raikenclw » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:52 am

runswithscissors wrote:The cyborgs will have limits. most will have tradeoffs. str/ag/vig will be dependent on the chassis.


I'm really thinking that you'll need to use the Supers rules. I'm sure that those have some sort of Multiple Form Edge/Power, because it sounds like you need to split up chargen for cyborgs. Have the player design his brain (Smarts, Spirit and mental Edges/Hindrances) and then have him design one or more chasis (Strength, Agility and any Physical Edges/Hindrances).

runswithscissors wrote:if they get a raise and boost a stat. based on the chassis, they will have to "upgrade" a specific "body".


[I think you mean "advance" rather than "raise." The two have very different meanings in SW.]

Again, I recommend the Supers rules, where I'm sure they have thought of such things already, in detail and considering most of the more likely ripple effects.

Because the above suggestion doesn't sound very fair to the cyborg's player. After all, their PC can only be "resident" in one body at a time. So when they're not in the upgraded body, they might as well have never gotten that advance. I would say - instead - that they can upgrade each body owned with the one advance or concentrate on just one or two for a bigger effective benefit.

Also, you will want to look at how easily they can *change* chasis. If it's a matter of physically removing their original bio-brain in a canister (as in Robocop II) that's going to be an entirely different matter from a digitized copy of their brain which can be up/downloaded by a coded microwave signal.
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#14 Postby ValhallaGH » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:10 pm

runswithscissors wrote:Cyborgs are a different kettle of fish. I was thinking plug and play with several stock types, almost as if they were different races that are interchangeable.

Look at the Gadgeteer edge in the Core Rules. Give them a racial feature that lets them "reequip" once per session - change out the powers their chassis has for something more useful. So, they hit a work station and swap out their Adrenal Boosters, Plasma Blaster, and Infravision Eyes (quickness, bolt, and darkvision) for Climbing Claws, Optic Camouflage, and a Combat Computer (wall walker, invisibility, and warrior's gift).

Then I'd use a core rules Arcane Background for them that fits with the setting flavor, for the basic game mechanics. Highly reliable powers and one power source but limited selection? Superpowers. Each power has a separate power supply that could fail catastrophically? Weird Science. One power source and a chance of exploding upon all around them? Psionics. One power source, and no real downsides? Miracles, with sins related to maintenance and repair. One power source and a chance of shorting out himself? Magic.
They are cyborgs, and all powers have a technology trapping.


If you use the Super Powers Companion for anyone in the setting then you better use it for every player character in the setting. The power difference between SPC and Core Rules is mind boggling, and one that cannot be overcome by other methods.
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#15 Postby raikenclw » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:12 am

ValhallaGH wrote:If you use the Super Powers Companion for anyone in the setting then you better use it for every player character in the setting. The power difference between SPC and Core Rules is mind boggling, and one that cannot be overcome by other methods.


That is sort of what I was trying to explain, in my own fumbling way. In my experience, monster-scale cyborgs just don't fit into the same PC party as baseline or even slightly-modified humans, unless you're willing to let the humans have something like suits of powered armor with comparable abilities. Without something like that, you'll find the party splitting up a lot.

Even if the cyborg PC has a less-powerful chassis available, getting him to switch into it (in any environment where there's significant danger) will likely be a real challenge. Don't be surprised if he turns out to want to use his Spider/Spy chassis on remote, while he stays safely inside his Biggest Baddest Chassis. Then when his control frequency jams, everyone at the table will hear - at great, fun-killing length - how "impossible" that is, given Ad Infinitum Reasons.

Then again, maybe your Tank player is different from just about every other one I've played with, over the past 30 years. :1sasmokin:
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#16 Postby runswithscissors » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:08 am

I was thinking that the cyborg would have a braincase / lifesupport that could be pulled by another person like an ejection seat in a fighter jet. in case the body failed the case could be pulled and carried away. swapping bodies would require help and another body to haul around. most would not have the carry capacity. I like the suggestion of giving each body an advance though.

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#17 Postby raikenclw » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:14 am

runswithscissors wrote:swapping bodies would require help and another body to haul around. most would not have the carry capacity.


Don't be surprised if the cyborg player wants his Big Bad Body to be able to carry two or even three specialty bodies along with him, strapped into a REALLY BIG armored backpack. Perhaps even a specialty robot designed to remove his brain canister from one body and slot it into another one.

Oh, my goodness! The possibilities for True Evilness by the GM multiply . . .

Seriously, though. I strongly recommend that you follow Valhalla's suggestion about giving ALL players access to the Supers rules for designing characters in this game. I really think that would work best for you, all around. The cyborg player can have his Monster, while the human player (for example) can be a genetically-enhanced Supersoldier, the beastman can be a Flying Psionic Monkey, the vampire can be a Transdimensional Spirit Leech, etc.

Using the Supers rules for everyone gives them all equal opportunity, avoiding the chance that anyone will feel their character is underpowered when compared to Mr. Monster Cyborg.
Han Solo, Wild Card: "Uh . . ." <BLAMM! Comm fizzles and dies> "Boring conversation, anyway. LUKE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE COMPANY!"


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