Alertness vs. d6 in Notice

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LCFlores91
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Alertness vs. d6 in Notice

#1 Postby LCFlores91 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:27 pm

In terms of Race creation (I'm trying to make "Gnomes" with a 3.5-esque flavor), which is more fair? Starting with a d6 gives the character a springboard to advance it, but the +2 modifier seems like it will give more rolls to you. Also, the +2 is 2 Racial Edge Points, whereas the d6 in Notice would only be one. In terms of balance, which should I choose?
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#2 Postby Thasmodious » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:11 pm

It would depend on what negative abilities you're assigning the gnome. For 3.5 esque, perhaps -1 Toughness (or the Small hindrance, same effect) and Pace 5, giving you -3 in points. So you'd have the free +2 and 3 other points to spend. The Alertness edge is 2, and really the edge that best fits that gnome, I think (off the top of my head anyway). +5 power points for AB:Magic or AB:Illusions if you have such a thing, for +1, and you still have 2 points to spend... d6 starting Vigor, perhaps.
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#3 Postby LCFlores91 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:16 pm

You should really look at the "Revamped Fantasy Races" thread I started on here. I could pick your brain indefinitely!
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#4 Postby Sherman » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:29 pm

+2 is always more powerful than a die increase.

Here's a question, is an alert elf more likely to notice something than an alert human? If the answer is yes, then give them the +2. Neither is likely to advance the skill higher than their Smarts, which makes a basic starting die for races more of a "required minimum" with a couple bonus skill points.

Personally I'm not a fan of straight modifiers though, feels like it just gives too big a bonus.
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#5 Postby Merlin_Sylver » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:11 am

Sherman wrote:Personally I'm not a fan of straight modifiers though, feels like it just gives too big a bonus.


I think it's designed to be that way... so when you tell the player "take a +2 on this roll", the player then gets very excited. It's also a good way of 'assuring' a success on a roll that REALLY needs to make it. The party can't go into the grand dungeon you've designed if they can't find the hidden entrance... That +2 all but ensures at least a basic success on most affected rolls. However, my sensibilties on the subject may be skewed by the fact that I don't like even the minimal paperwork required to keep up with altered die steps. I've even gone so far as to have the Boost/Lower trait power give out +1/-1 (or +2/-2 on a raise), and that power sees a lot more action these days.

OT: As far as I understand it. if a race has racial Alertness, then they can still take the Alertness edge as well (I've never seen anything saying otherwise... doesn't mean it's not there). So, an added factor to Sherman's question would be, would a character walking around with a +4 Notice roll break your game? Personally, it would not in my games... as I am pretty liberal with penalties and bonuses. If I want to make the party work for spotting something, I'd just say it was so masterfully well hidden that your Notice roll to find it is at -6.

Bear in mind that no matter how high your die type is, and no matter how many bonuses they have, if the character is not 'on alert', then they can still be taken by surprise on with a successful Stealth roll (I haven't been able to see the SWD ruling on this yet, so that may have changed).
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#6 Postby Timon » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:07 pm

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Sherman wrote:The party can't go into the grand dungeon you've designed if they can't find the hidden entrance...


For another thread perhaps, but it seems to me that not being able to progress because of one trait roll is a scenario design issue, not a racial design issue.
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#7 Postby LCFlores91 » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:48 pm

Timon wrote:
Merlin_Sylver wrote:
For another thread perhaps, but it seems to me that not being able to progress because of one trait roll is a scenario design issue, not a racial design issue.


Here, here! I think I was underwstimating the +2 bonus as a whole. Everyone should check out my Revamped Fantasy Races thread in Conversions. I'd love the input.
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#8 Postby ValhallaGH » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:53 pm

LCFlores91 wrote:I think I was underwstimating the +2 bonus as a whole.

A Wild Card with a d4+1 is almost as good as with a d10, for achieving basic success. (83.3% vs. 85%)

A Wild Card with a d4+2 is better than a with a d12, for achieving basic success. (95.8% vs. 87.5%)

It takes a while to realize just how powerful any bonus is in Savage Worlds. The answer is "scary powerful".
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#9 Postby Merlin_Sylver » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:20 pm

Timon wrote:
Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Sherman wrote:The party can't go into the grand dungeon you've designed if they can't find the hidden entrance...


For another thread perhaps, but it seems to me that not being able to progress because of one trait roll is a scenario design issue, not a racial design issue.


I was referring to the concept of using a flat bonus in general, rather than a specific racial ability, more referencing the previous post's ending statement of not caring for flat bonuses.
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#10 Postby Sherman » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:16 pm

Not my quote...

Anyway, I recently picked up the GUMSHOE system from Pelgrane Press and it has some very effective tools for detective styled games. In fact, after reading through it for the last couple weeks, I'm going to be incorporating several ideas into some of my regular games whatever they might be. Definitely worth picking up and reading if you've ever tried to run a mystery type game and were not entirely happy with how typical RPGs handled it.

As for me, not finding a secret door is only a problem if there is nothing else to do after that. I like to run games that work based on player action or inaction. What if they never even search for the door? Hopefully they're doing something else cool at least.
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