Savage Space completed

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Chaosmeister
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Savage Space completed

#1 Postby Chaosmeister » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:03 am

Hello all, it is complete. After weeks of work and a lot of feedback the complete PDF is now available on my blog. I will send it over to Savage Heroes after a bit. I want to wait for feedback and fix any last errors that are found.

An overview of the contents:

    -40+ fully bookmarked and indexed Pages
    -New hindrances
    -New edges
    -An extensive equipment list
    -Various armors and shields
    -New weapons including blasters and disintegrators
    -Cyberware, from replacements to enhancements
    -A full rule set on how to create space ships as characters, complete with skills, edges, hindrances, and equipment
    -And finally a full featured adventure generator!


I am happy this is finished and I could not have done it without the help of steelbrok, Lord Karick, jasales and many others! This here is really the greatest and most helpfull RPG community I was ever part of. I really can not thank you all enough!

If you are interested head over to my Blog to download it. I would love to hear what you think, no matter if good or bad.

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#2 Postby Sean-Khan » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:10 am

Looks good, I need to read through that with time! I have plans of running Star Wars, Galactica & Babylon 5 in distant future or sooner as one-shots, I'll have to read this thinking of those. I'm slowly warming to the idea of starships as characters!

Thanks for sharing! :)

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#3 Postby kronovan » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:26 am

Wow, just wow, has that ever come a long way from the PDF's you posted earlier! The look and layout is excellent; surpasses the quality of a lot of PDFs you pay $ for on drivethhru. I love the Savage Space Ship sheet. And holy crap that you included an adventure generator! I much prefer the new size categories - much easier for me to wrap my brain around. Excellent job all around.

One question about the Table Sizes given for ships - are they intended for chase scale or battle map scale? Or are they perhaps for something different, like a space battle scale?

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#4 Postby Virgobrown72 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:00 pm

Not too shabby buddy. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the spaceship as character thing, being that I've been using the ship creation rules from the sci fi companion. I like your weapon listings for ships though. Nice and simple. Keep keepin' on, baby!!!
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#5 Postby Thasmodious » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:18 pm

This is great stuff. I've been running a Firefly game for about two years now, and while I went a bit of a different direction with my setting rules (a focus on life on board a ship and the western elements core to the 'Verse), there is some good stuff I can use here. I've toyed with ship as character idea, and I love your system. Also, that adventure generator is excellent! I'm intrigued by the idea of trade credits, I like it's ability to simulate down time between significant adventures and cover maintenance. In my game, the Captain has to keep track of their money pretty carefully, sometimes cutting corners on maintenance or fuel expenses. I wanted that barely scraping by feel, and they seem to like it, but I'll be re-evaluating some of it with this.

One thing I'd say might be missing, depending on your game goals, is a system for popping surprise ship malfunctions on a crew. I found and converted a set of tables from a Serenity RPG fan site that allow for random problems in a variety of situations - Entering/exiting Atmo, Random crossover/shorts table, stressing the ship (combat, running full burn), and my favorite for poor captains trying to get by, the You Have A Crappy Ship table. I've had a lot of fun using those.

Anyway, excellent .pdf, and I agree, the quality is better than a lot of not-free .pdfs you find.
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#6 Postby OSIAdept » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:31 pm

Loving the whole look, that i noticed that we have similar thoughts on shields and cybernetics lol

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#7 Postby Dylan S » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:11 pm

I'm planning to run a space opera game soon, and this will be an invaluable resource. I'm not all the way through it, but there are already enough well-thought-out ideas to ensure I'll be referencing it in the future.

Notes:
1. The 'stun' effect doesn't make sense to me. If damage causes fatigue levels, it doesn't need to be defined as non-lethal because the victim will never reach the Incap table. Also, how do we recover these fatigue wounds? You could just make it 'non-lethal'.

2. Hazard: Asphyxiation refers to exposure to the void of space. However, as it stands now, a character with a high Vigour die, some bennies, and a little luck could survive indefinitely. This doesn't seem right to me. I'd consider incurring a cumulative -1 penalty to Vigour per round to reflect both running out of breath and heat. This way, the character can benefit from her high constitution, but must eventually die. I'd also say that at least a day is necessary to recover each level of Fatigue (maybe less with medical treatment). I don't think the 'remaining still for +1 on the roll' is necessary.

3. I'm not crazy about the Freelancer edge. It restricts a PC from following the 'rags to riches' story you'd expect of this background, because the Poverty hindrance specifies that you can't hold on to future income.

4. I like Debtor (Minor), but Debtor (Major) just seems like a story-specific version of Enemy.

5. I would personally nerf the energy blades. The way you have it definitely reflects how powerful lightsabers are in the movies, but creating a weapon sub-type that is simply better than other types makes Vibro and Normal melee weapons redundant. Not sure what to do about this one.

For points 3 and 4, perhaps you could come up with a way to simplify them by creating a single debt/reward edge or hindrance, similar to Noble.

Edit: Really, it's so good though.

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#8 Postby wyldspirit » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:24 am

Wow, this is impressive! Kudos to you Chaosmeister!

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#9 Postby Chaosmeister » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:58 am

Hello all, thank you for the feedback and I am glad it seems you like it overall. I will answer everything one by one.

Kronovan wrote:One question about the Table Sizes given for ships - are they intended for chase scale or battle map scale? Or are they perhaps for something different, like a space battle scale?


The Scale is for use on the Battlemap. But of course it is not the same scale as the characters have as even a small transport would be bigger. They are in "Space Scale" just like the top speed is in Space Units. I may have to add a paragraph how the scales interact with each other. Basically the scale is only for spaceship vs spaceship combat on a Battlemap.

Thasmodeus wrote:One thing I'd say might be missing, depending on your game goals, is a system for popping surprise ship malfunctions on a crew. I found and converted a set of tables from a Serenity RPG fan site that allow for random problems in a variety of situations - Entering/exiting Atmo, Random crossover/shorts table, stressing the ship (combat, running full burn), and my favorite for poor captains trying to get by, the You Have A Crappy Ship table. I've had a lot of fun using those.


Your game sounds great! My players would never go for that though :) My game is more on the Star Wars side with a hint of Firefly only. But steelbrok and me have tried to implement something like this with the temporary hindrances on failed maintenance rolls. We did not want to have it fully random. I think a table like that can be interesting though. Can you tell me where you found this? I would like to have a look and maybe add such a table as an optional rule or something like that.

OSIAdept wrote:Loving the whole look, that i noticed that we have similar thoughts on shields and cybernetics lol


Thanks! However I must defer credit for the way shields work to jasales, he allowed me to adapt his rules from his mass effect conversion. The cyberware is very much influenced by Cyberpunk 2020, my favorite cyberpunk setting.

Dylan S wrote:1. The 'stun' effect doesn't make sense to me. If damage causes fatigue levels, it doesn't need to be defined as non-lethal because the victim will never reach the Incap table. Also, how do we recover these fatigue wounds? You could just make it 'non-lethal'.


I see what you mean. I need to add a Hazard:Stun I think, describing the effect in more detail. I think I will modify the Sleep Hazard for that. I decided to go with fatigue instead of wounds because of the quicker recovery but mainly that a wildcard only has 2 fatigue levels but 3 wounds. I want to make it easier to stun someone then kill them. I may have to revisit the blaster stun damage then too. Thanks for pointing that out!

Dylan S wrote:2. Hazard: Asphyxiation refers to exposure to the void of space. However, as it stands now, a character with a high Vigour die, some bennies, and a little luck could survive indefinitely. This doesn't seem right to me. I'd consider incurring a cumulative -1 penalty to Vigour per round to reflect both running out of breath and heat. This way, the character can benefit from her high constitution, but must eventually die. I'd also say that at least a day is necessary to recover each level of Fatigue (maybe less with medical treatment). I don't think the 'remaining still for +1 on the roll' is necessary.


Another good suggestion. Mind If I "steal" it liberally?

Dylan S wrote:3. I'm not crazy about the Freelancer edge. It restricts a PC from following the 'rags to riches' story you'd expect of this background, because the Poverty hindrance specifies that you can't hold on to future income.

The edge gives you a ship for free so some hindrance has to come with that. The idea is that the owner/captain has to spend most of his money on the ship maintenance and repairs hence the poverty edge. It is there if you want to run the game with zero bookkeeping but still have a financial impact. I see the last sentence is confusing, it is a leftover from a former iteration that stated you would have to follow the TC rules or maintenance rules. I will fix that.

Maybe I need a third edge linked to the trade credit system? I forgot to clarify the interaction there.

There is no edge required to have a ship btw. As stated in the space ships as characters rules you can buy a new or used one directly with cash.

Dylan S wrote: 4. I like Debtor (Minor), but Debtor (Major) just seems like a story-specific version of Enemy.

It is mostly a trapping for Wanted. I tried to have the Han Solo option and this is it. :) The character should have an easy way for a lot of money but with some repercussions. I agree you can simply decide you are wanted or have an enemy because you have debts though. I wanted to formalize it. As you have had many good suggestions, if you have a more detailed idea how to handle it differently I will be all ears :D

Dylan S wrote:5. I would personally nerf the energy blades. The way you have it definitely reflects how powerful lightsabers are in the movies, but creating a weapon sub-type that is simply better than other types makes Vibro and Normal melee weapons redundant. Not sure what to do about this one.


Energy weapons have higher Strength requirements as normal weapons and I have tweaked the costs a bit just now as other also said they where too powerful for the price. There are also many more weapon types available as vibro variants as there are for energy weapons. Maybe I should have Vibro weapons be able to withstand energy swords and only mundane weapons be subject to destruction.


Thank you all for your comments and kind words.It is good to get feedback. :D
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#10 Postby Chaosmeister » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:06 am

wyldspirit wrote:Wow, this is impressive! Kudos to you Chaosmeister!


Sorry, I did not see you there when I wrote the reply :) Thanks for the praise.
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#11 Postby 77IM » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:21 pm

This is excellent!!!

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#12 Postby Chaosmeister » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:19 am

Than you 77IM!

I am working on 1.1 on and off and currently looking at the Edges. How about this version, I personally like it:

Freelancer
Requirements: Novice, Piloting d6+
You were always an independent kind of person. Strict organization was not for you and because of your restlessness you began to travel space at a young age. That was many years ago and now you own your own ship. This freedom comes at a price, as you must take care of the ship and crew out of your own pocket. You also gain the Debt (Minor) hindrance without the bonus to starting cash. This does not count against your hindrance limit. You should read the maintenance and trade credits rules.


and the debt one:


Debt (Minor)
You owe a huge debt to someone who intends to collect, one way or the other. The good news is you start the game with 4 x the starting funds, however, you owe double that amount. You still have time to repay the debt or can persuade the debtor not to collect immediately by doing favors or working the debt off. If you continuously fail to fulfill your obligations to the lender you might end up on a wanted list.
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#13 Postby Kakaze » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:20 pm

I looks good! I think you've got the Ships as Characters thing down really well right now. However, I think the Caring Crew edge would probably make more sense as an edge for the crew, not for the ship. Also, I still think Failing Subsystem is too nasty for even a major hindrance. Have you considered something a bit less brutal, like making the ship be capable of being Shaken (which normally vehicles can't be) in combat?

*edit* Okay, how about you give ships the Hardy edge normally, but drop it if they have failing subsystems?
Last edited by Kakaze on Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#14 Postby Kakaze » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:22 pm

Oooh how about replacing Caring Crew with Loving Ship... the ship can spend it's bennies on players! Then, have a separate edge for players to take called Caring Crew where they can spend bennies on the ship.

*edit* I just realized you already have that edge in Trusty Old Ship. That's what I get for posting before I read.
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#15 Postby Thasmodious » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:00 pm

Chaosmeister wrote:Your game sounds great! My players would never go for that though :) My game is more on the Star Wars side with a hint of Firefly only. But steelbrok and me have tried to implement something like this with the temporary hindrances on failed maintenance rolls. We did not want to have it fully random. I think a table like that can be interesting though. Can you tell me where you found this? I would like to have a look and maybe add such a table as an optional rule or something like that.


I tried to go find the original Cortex system tables, but was unable to. It wasn't a wasted trip, though, as there lots of nifty new updates from the Serenity community, lots of new starship deckplans and the like. :)

I've just about finished updating those tables to be SWD compatible, working in dramatic tasks and the like. If you want to PM me an email address, I'll be happy to send you the .pdf when I'm done.
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#16 Postby Dracones » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:51 pm

Dylan S wrote: I'd consider incurring a cumulative -1 penalty to Vigour per round to reflect both running out of breath and heat.


Well, to be picky you can leave off the heat part. It actually takes quite a while to freeze in space because your body will only lose heat via radiant heat loss.

Edit: Here's a decent article on it, especially describing hypoxia. http://www.damninteresting.com/outer-space-exposure/

For example, exposure even in high atmosphere(30k ft) you measure seconds of useful consciousness because the body needs pressure for the blood to manage oxygen. So you feel drunk and then pass out fairly quickly.

But then again, realism can be pretty undramatic :lol:

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#17 Postby Dylan S » Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:13 am

I stand happily corrected, Dracones! I've been duped by too many freeze-n-shatter scenes from the movies.

Edit: After reading the article Dracones linked, I'd say a -2 penalty to Vigour every round is in order, and that's being generous: the article states that 'useful consciousness' lasts only 10 seconds, after which the victim passes out in a, "... blue, bloated, unresponsive stupor." It also indicates that nobody could survive resuscitation after 90 seconds, even with a complete restoration of atmosphere and temperature. Might want to make that the cut-off point for this Hazard.

This article made really terrible before-bed reading.

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#18 Postby Chaosmeister » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:49 pm

If you want hard sci fi you would really need to adjust this edge. As stated this is for space opera. So people surviving being sucked out into space and back to the ship can happen. That said I will make it a little bit harsher. :)

Kakaze wrote:Have you considered something a bit less brutal, like making the ship be capable of being Shaken (which normally vehicles can't be) in combat?
All ships can be shaken, check the rules section :)

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#19 Postby Thasmodious » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:15 am

So I used the Adventure Generator the other night and just love what it came up with. Captain drew a merc job. They had to go after a criminal, basically a bounty. Three locations became a space wreck, prison, and a primitive camp. The complication was time and the opposition was a specialist.

So I decided that the PCs were basically hired to run down a ship that was supposed to have the criminal aboard. When they find the ship, it has just been hit by Reavers, who took a few prisoners. They can track the Reaver ship to a camp on a nearby moon, where the criminal is now a prisoner being abused and tortured as Reavers do. They have a very short time frame to acquire their criminal before the Reavers do what Reavers do (and he isn't lucky about the order). The specialist is a bounty hunter who made it to the wreck, too, but doesn't want to tangle with Reavers, so he's hiding aboard the PC's ship now and will try and kidnap the target and steal their shuttle if they are successful.

I love it, great job on that generator, easy to use, fun to fill out the details. And it took me like 5 minutes at the table to do it.
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#20 Postby Chaosmeister » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:41 pm

Really glad you got a kick out of it! :-D I am such a sucker for adventure generators myself. Good to see that it gets real use! Let me know how it works out for your players. :)
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