[NE] Unstoppable Super munchkin

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Lord Lance
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#21 Postby Lord Lance » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:38 am

Timon wrote:So far the most useful ones are those that do not require super-powers.

V'sori are nasty bastards. They adapt quickly (as Clint keep saying in his posts). Then, they could bring some Super they captured in the past and braiwashed, to use against the PCs. Or they can build a special Absolute Terror Field weapon... your weapons as Master are countless!
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#22 Postby Timon » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:04 am

Some good advice there. Sean you are right about the hit and damage - my brain-damage was playing up again. I was already going ranged, but, I had forgotten Military Training and 3RB. Hell, the guy at the back can add an aiming round. I have no problem scattering drones in front of him, though I might have the Ktharen tank and the Drones snipe from behind them.

Loremaster, I like your thinking on the background. I could have a V'sori turn up with a remote that turns off all the devices, supplied by the father who is now brain-controlled, cyborged and working in a V'Sori weapons lab.
He would need to find the lab and "deal" with his father. Should be a guts (umm Spirit) roll in there somewhere... :twisted:

Thinking this through a bit more, the only real issue is that in the previous session the other players did not get a chance to shine.

I have been thinking about this the wrong way.
It is not about zapping the munchkin, it's about supplying challenges that are fun for and adapted to the other players: doing my job as GM.
I need to make the non-melee parts of the game important and exciting.
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#23 Postby TheLoremaster » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:27 am

Timon wrote:I have been thinking about this the wrong way.
It is not about zapping the munchkin, it's about supplying challenges that are fun for and adapted to the other players: doing my job as GM.
I need to make the non-melee parts of the game important and exciting.

Exactly. Take a note from comic books: the best stories aren't about the cool powers, but what having those powers do to you and your life. It's not about how awesome it is that Spidey can swing from the rooftops, it's about how having those abilities puts the lives of those he loves in danger. That's where things get interesting.

Hope that helps!
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#24 Postby Pariah74 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:04 am

Not to sidetrack or detract from those saying story/hindrances are a good way to go after him (because those are probably the most interesting) but I had another thought.

All of his device powers seem to come from metallic devices. How would he fare against Magneto?
Metal Control might be a great way to make him feel the sting of the GM.

Yank that sword from his hand, or just turn it into a wet noodle. Make his armor fall apart.

Maybe work this character into his hindrances...is it his father? Is it a financial rival?
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#25 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:50 am

Aim, plus Three Round Burst.

+4 attack, and +2 damage.

Even with his Deflection up, that makes it a TN 4 shot. Without that power (say, in the Surprise Round), it's a TN 0 shot. Easy-peasy.


Marksman and 3RB can be used every single round. Just need a HW with a 3RB setting - like a plasma rifle. :twisted:
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#26 Postby Timon » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:01 pm

Can't roll out Magneto and I have to say that the Material control power in NE is kind of weak - all the cool stuff you expect of it is actually covered by other powers.

Zapping-wise I am fielding Ktharen troopers with blaster rifles - 3RB and military training already gives +4 to hit and +2 damage, aiming would make it +6 to hit.

That said - I shall start adding some depth to the NE plot, the hard part being to keep it light-hearted...
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#27 Postby Pariah74 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:12 pm

Timon wrote:Can't roll out Magneto and I have to say that the Material control power in NE is kind of weak - all the cool stuff you expect of it is actually covered by other powers.


What do you need it to do that the power doesn't do? It gives your character total control over metal. His sword and armor are metal. Ripping them from his body seems to fall under the power's domain.

What am I missing?

And I didn't literally mean Magneto. I meant "Magneto."
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#28 Postby marshal kt » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:13 pm

AoE attacks don't have to target him..say a building next to him, the bridge or highway overpass he's under.

drop a building, or parts of it, on most anything, will slow it way down.
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#29 Postby Theta » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:24 am

I thought it was possible to Phase in and out with extra action and repeat action.

I once had 3 munchkins in one NE game and they had in order an undying undead brute who was immune to everything, a mad scientist with ungodly high intelligence, mind control, and extra action who oneshotted every boss, in between phasing in and out on the appropriate action, and a biohorror created by said mad scientist who just wanted to make his father proud, he was just a slightly faster crowd control version of his father.

Amazing roleplaying when they weren't breaking the game though.

That aside you might give people facing him 2 target eyes and a laser sight on a blaster rifle on a 3RB setting for say a k'tharen thats a + 5 to hit without aiming or not moving with this loadout (+9 if all are done which is enough to always get an armshot at 30 doing at least 3d6+2 overpenetrating his armor and most likely making him drop his sword which will cost him his action and possibly deactivate it). A K'tharen commander could fire from 50 away on full auto at + 5 with 3D12 + wild die shooting with massive damage and armor piercing for quite a while. It just gets worse if he starts back peddilling (Which he does almost as well as your munchkin runs (No K'tharen fight like that, it is way out of character.)) If they were a little less tribal and a lot less honerable they would be much better soldiers.

Your right though the best solution is to make sure every player has time in the limelight and enjoys playing the game. Besides if he's built for combat he should be good at it.

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#30 Postby Cutter XXIII » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:35 am

Pariah74 wrote:
newForumNewName wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:
Cutter XXIII wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:Oh and another good trick for smacking the crap out of super munchkin ninjas like this one...Intangible with the a fore mentioned Mind Control.

Except those can't be used simultaneously. That is, you can't intangibly mind control someone, because that would count as "affecting the physical world." (Clint reference)


Yes, but Phase makes it a free action. Pop in, Mind Control, pop out.

Can't do that either. Two of the same actions in a round (phasing).


You're right on a technicality, but the theory still holds. An intangible mind controller does the job.
Mind Control him, pop out.

And as soon as you "pop out," the Mind Control ends, because otherwise the Intangible character would be affecting the physical world.
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#31 Postby newForumNewName » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:12 pm

Cutter XXIII wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:
newForumNewName wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:
Cutter XXIII wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:Oh and another good trick for smacking the crap out of super munchkin ninjas like this one...Intangible with the a fore mentioned Mind Control.

Except those can't be used simultaneously. That is, you can't intangibly mind control someone, because that would count as "affecting the physical world." (Clint reference)


Yes, but Phase makes it a free action. Pop in, Mind Control, pop out.

Can't do that either. Two of the same actions in a round (phasing).


You're right on a technicality, but the theory still holds. An intangible mind controller does the job.
Mind Control him, pop out.

And as soon as you "pop out," the Mind Control ends, because otherwise the Intangible character would be affecting the physical world.

I dunno... there's an argument to be made that mind control isn't physical... I still wouldn't allow it in my game though.
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#32 Postby Cutter XXIII » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:25 pm

newForumNewName wrote:
Cutter XXIII wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:
newForumNewName wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:
Cutter XXIII wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:Oh and another good trick for smacking the crap out of super munchkin ninjas like this one...Intangible with the a fore mentioned Mind Control.

Except those can't be used simultaneously. That is, you can't intangibly mind control someone, because that would count as "affecting the physical world." (Clint reference)


Yes, but Phase makes it a free action. Pop in, Mind Control, pop out.

Can't do that either. Two of the same actions in a round (phasing).


You're right on a technicality, but the theory still holds. An intangible mind controller does the job.
Mind Control him, pop out.

And as soon as you "pop out," the Mind Control ends, because otherwise the Intangible character would be affecting the physical world.

I dunno... there's an argument to be made that mind control isn't physical... I still wouldn't allow it in my game though.

An argument I made in my linked "Clint ref" above, and he shot down. Doesn't matter what kind of attack/energy/mumbojumbo "mind control" is, the bottom-line caveat of Intangibility takes ultimate precedence.

And now, the circle is complete. :)
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#33 Postby marshal kt » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:39 pm

I played in a game Clint ran. My SS used the intangible power. Clint's final word was, while intangible nothing can affect you & you can't affect anything.

He didn't say anything physical or mental only or disclaimer.
You affect nothing.
Nothing affects you.

Pretty much sums it up.
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#34 Postby Pariah74 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:59 pm

You only need to pop out if the Mind Control fails tho. :wink:

So yes, it works. The circle is NOW complete. :razz:

Seriously tho, just think it through. Why would he go intangible if he's mind controlling the threat? He only needs to pop out (which he can do as a free action) if he breaks free of it, and once he's controlled he's stuck until the controller forces him to do something suicidal or hurt a companion.

I wouldn't call taking off your armor and laying down your weapon as one of the reasons to get an attempt to resist.

So once he's disarmed he's virtually powerless. This is basically a method of attacking the hindrances of his powers. Yes, a viable and fun method is to attack the character's hindrances, but can't we both be right? :-D
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#35 Postby Cutter XXIII » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:34 pm

Pariah74 wrote:Seriously tho, just think it through. Why would he go intangible if he's mind controlling the threat?

I don't know, man. You're the one who proposed it.
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#36 Postby Pariah74 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:58 pm

Sigh...You're not gonna budge huh? :|

I only suggested that phasing allowed it to be a free action, when you said they couldn't be used simultaneously. I'm sorry my reply wasn't clear, but I said that he could pop in, mind control and pop out, meaning to say that he didn't need to do it simultaneously. :-?
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Re: [NE] Unstoppable Super munchkin

#37 Postby Boldfist » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:00 pm

Timon wrote:Blade
Attributes: Agility d10, Smarts d8, Spirit d10, Strength d10, Vigor d8
Skills: Fighting d12+5, Guts d6, Notice d8, Swimming d8, Streetwise d8
Charisma 0, Pace 6, Parry 10, Toughness 8, Power Points 20, CV 201
Hindrances: Arrogant, Super Karma: Overconfident, Vengeful, Big Mouth
Edges: Arcane Background (Super Powers), Power Points: +5, Combat Reflexes, First Strike, Improved First Strike, Level Headed, Rich, Danger Sense, Improved Level Headed.
Powers: Attack, Melee: 3, Awareness, Deflection: 4, Lair, Speed: Pace×2, Super Attributes, Super Skills, Super Edge: Combat Reflexes, Improved First Strike, Level Headed, Improved Level Headed.
Gear: Vibro-Sword: Str+d8+2, Duraweave Suit: +1, Z-Belt: +1, Kevlar Vest: +2/4, Artificial Gill, Flashlight (10" beam), CommLink.


I've been following this thread thinking the whole time that this isn't really a GREAT munchkin build. Yes, he's certainly a good build but there are so many MORE things he could do to really maximize this type of character. I know Loremaster asked you to send him the full stats. Can you share them with the rest of us? I'd be curious to see exactly where all the points went too.
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#38 Postby Pariah74 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:21 pm

You know...for a character that likes to hit things and has First Strike and Level Headed you can send an Absorber of kinetic energy after him. Let him wail on a guy who transfers that damage to strength. :lol: Give him a d12+x in fighting so he can hit back and waltz him right up to the munchkin. He'll shout out, "First Strike" and wail away, and then watch in horror as the enemy grows muscles from the damage. :wink:
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#39 Postby newForumNewName » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:01 pm

Cutter XXIII wrote:And now, the circle is complete. :)

That'll teach me to not read the link... and to learn to use the force before facing my cyborg father on a cloud planet. Maybe not that last part, but I had to make the joke.
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#40 Postby Timon » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:01 pm

@Boldfist
happy to oblige - just don't tell the player how he could make this build more fearsome... :eek:
Blade build (metacreator export)

I like the ranged ideas - though the Ktharen would not be able to back-pedal fast enough - Blade has pace 12. This discussion has also inspired me to broaden and deepen the non-combat side of the game. That's the value of challenging players - they make you a better GM (eventually :mrgreen:)

In the meantime the player (=my 12 year old son) has been idly developing a new concept - a stage-magician character who produces 5 summoned rabbits with the telekinesis super-power level 6, gah.

That intangibility stuff, sooo many quotes - I just can't touch it... :lol:
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