SWEX to SWD - changes and additions

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JackMann
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#21 Postby JackMann » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:33 am

So far as I know, the only new power that isn't from the FC is Mind Reading, which is fairly self-explanatory.

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One Sheets

#22 Postby Glitch » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:58 am

Are the one sheets included in the book the same as the ones found on the peginc website or is it new ones?

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Re: One Sheets

#23 Postby Cutter XXIII » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:59 am

Glitch wrote:Are the one sheets included in the book the same as the ones found on the peginc website or is it new ones?

They're all new.
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#24 Postby Tavis » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:32 am

Ignore me, I know not of what I speak ...
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#25 Postby JmOz01 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:32 am

Anyone want to post a list of powers, edges and hinderances that were not in the explorer's edition? Just really curious what has been added. Also, while we ahve been talking about add ons, what about things removed?

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#26 Postby kreider204 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:06 am

JmOz01 wrote:Anyone want to post a list of powers, edges and hinderances that were not in the explorer's edition?


Not me. :mrgreen:

JmOz01 wrote:Also, while we ahve been talking about add ons, what about things removed?


I'm including removals in the Changes section. So far, it's not much - the Guts skill, rules for capital ships and watercraft.
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#27 Postby islan » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:30 am

Huh, I'm not sure how I feel about the whole "+1d6 for a Raise on an AoE". Do they give any logic behind that decision?

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#28 Postby Pariah74 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:51 am

islan wrote:Huh, I'm not sure how I feel about the whole "+1d6 for a Raise on an AoE". Do they give any logic behind that decision?


I always gave a penalty to get out of the way if they scored a raise.
With the bonus die on damage do they count armor now?

If not I can see a slew of grenadiers in my future.
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#29 Postby kreider204 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:00 pm

islan wrote:Huh, I'm not sure how I feel about the whole "+1d6 for a Raise on an AoE". Do they give any logic behind that decision?


I don't see a designer note. If I had to speculate wildly (and what's stopping me?!), I'd guess that a lot of people forget that it's not supposed to score the extra d6 with a raise, and so they just said "heck with it" ...
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#30 Postby Clint » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:09 pm

kreider204 wrote:
islan wrote:Huh, I'm not sure how I feel about the whole "+1d6 for a Raise on an AoE". Do they give any logic behind that decision?


I don't see a designer note. If I had to speculate wildly (and what's stopping me?!), I'd guess that a lot of people forget that it's not supposed to score the extra d6 with a raise, and so they just said "heck with it" ...


Give your wild speculation about 24 hours and the internet will make it the "official" reason Pinnacle did it. :lol:

[Actually, I'll say that uniformity was part of it, but primarily, why couldn't a character with an extraordinary success put an explosive in a location where it was more effective? It wasn't logical that it didn't apply.]
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#31 Postby Lord Lance » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:45 pm

Clint wrote:[Actually, I'll say that uniformity was part of it, but primarily, why couldn't a character with an extraordinary success put an explosive in a location where it was more effective? It wasn't logical that it didn't apply.]

How do you see the balance issues?
AoE usually do not permit a "defense" roll (except thrown and slow trapping ones), it damages a big area as opposed as a single target, AND usually ignore armors.
Are you sure this is what you want?
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#32 Postby islan » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:00 pm

Yeah, I agree, I thought the "no +1d6 on a Raise" made perfect sense; the blast affects a whole area, whereas I viewed "+1d6 on a Raise" as a "critical hit" that hit a specific location. That would have to be something I'd need to houserule back, but from other things I've been hearing, I'm increasingly becoming worried that I am not going to be very pleased with this new book. :(

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#33 Postby newForumNewName » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:06 pm

I've been toying with an idea that I don't think is very good, but I'll share anyway. Allow an Agility roll for characters in the blast radius. Each success and raise adds a single point to their Toughness for the purpose of taking damage from the blast.

Again, I don't really think that's a good idea, but I've been toying with it since my WWII game ended at the end of March and haven't had a chance to test it.

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#34 Postby Clint » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:10 pm

Lord Lance wrote:
Clint wrote:[Actually, I'll say that uniformity was part of it, but primarily, why couldn't a character with an extraordinary success put an explosive in a location where it was more effective? It wasn't logical that it didn't apply.]

How do you see the balance issues?
AoE usually do not permit a "defense" roll (except thrown and slow trapping ones), it damages a big area as opposed as a single target, AND usually ignore armors.
Are you sure this is what you want?


Yes, yes it is what we wanted. That's kind of why we put it in the book. ;)

And we didn't really see a balance issue in playtesting. If you run into one in actual play, let us know.
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#35 Postby kreider204 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:16 pm

islan wrote:Yeah, I agree, I thought the "no +1d6 on a Raise" made perfect sense; the blast affects a whole area, whereas I viewed "+1d6 on a Raise" as a "critical hit" that hit a specific location.


I think the old assumption was that the blast area affects the whole area uniformly, but that's not necessarily the case; for example, there's no reason why someone might not catch more shrapnel from a grenade than someone else. Heck, even the wizard's fireball might be a bit more fiery in some places than others.

But to each his own - it's certainly an easy enough house rule, or you can just stick with SWEX altogether - the changes won't affect setting books much if at all.
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#36 Postby amerigoV » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:39 pm

islan wrote:Yeah, I agree, I thought the "no +1d6 on a Raise" made perfect sense; the blast affects a whole area, whereas I viewed "+1d6 on a Raise" as a "critical hit" that hit a specific location. That would have to be something I'd need to houserule back, but from other things I've been hearing, I'm increasingly becoming worried that I am not going to be very pleased with this new book. :(


I was always on the other side of that - if I cast well, why should I not have especially hot firery balls....(wait, that did not come out right....).

I think it did come up in a game at Origins. It was in a rather high-powered game (Supers/Rippers mashup), so I did not think too much about it. It a lower powered game, it makes grenades and such more dangerous and keeps them viable for higher level play (where armor/high toughness impacts the game more).

I do not mind the tweeks so long was we get a separate document that says what changed - it helps focus on what new language to really go after (which I believe will be produced). Perhaps you should wait for that document if you have reservations.
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#37 Postby islan » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:41 pm

kreider204 wrote:I think the old assumption was that the blast area affects the whole area uniformly, but that's not necessarily the case; for example, there's no reason why someone might not catch more shrapnel from a grenade than someone else. Heck, even the wizard's fireball might be a bit more fiery in some places than others.


What you're describing sounds more like a defense of damage not being applied uniformly to all targets, not a defense of "+1d6 for a Raise". I don't really see how throwing a grenade better makes it more damaging, I can kinda see a spellcaster being able to cast a better fireball though. But "+1d6 for a Raise" on AoE's becomes a problem, I think, when you consider that the Raise is dictated by the TN to throw or cast a spell, and therefore a Raise on an AoE means a +1d6 against all targets inside the area.

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#38 Postby amerigoV » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:13 pm

islan wrote:What you're describing sounds more like a defense of damage not being applied uniformly to all targets, not a defense of "+1d6 for a Raise". I don't really see how throwing a grenade better makes it more damaging, I can kinda see a spellcaster being able to cast a better fireball though. But "+1d6 for a Raise" on AoE's becomes a problem, I think, when you consider that the Raise is dictated by the TN to throw or cast a spell, and therefore a Raise on an AoE means a +1d6 against all targets inside the area.


In my mind, its a cover issue. Cover and Deflection Spells (IIRC) adds to Toughness vs. AoE. So if you have more cover in that area, then you are fine. If not, it was a darn good toss.

As an example to explain it, think about in real life the concept of "cooking a grenade" - you pull the pin, release the trigger, but wait a couple of counts to toss the grenade to get a better effect. Also, I would imagine a grenade does more damage if it explodes a couple of feet off the ground and not on the ground itself to get maximum shrapnel dispursion.

Obviously, if that does not fly with you change it (you might argue Acing damage reflects those things, which is just as valid).
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#39 Postby Pariah74 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:01 pm

IMO there are any number of ways to explain both sides of this argument.

Debating the reality, or physics of it is silly IMO, doubly so when you consider we're talking about Savage Worlds.

My only considerations are mechanical. Does the bringing the rule in line with the way other things work create a faster, furious...er, funner game, without upsetting balance?
I trust Clint that it does.

If it doesn't, I go back to using -2 to avoid for hitting with a raise. Simple.
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#40 Postby ogbendog » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:35 pm

Unless I'm misreading it, the section on being shaken left out the part of "
if you are shaken by an attack and are already shaken, it's a wound"

page 68


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