Very Rough Wealth System

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robert4818
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Very Rough Wealth System

#1 Postby robert4818 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:07 pm

Ok. Very rough wealth system for those wanting to do without cash.

First give players a Wealth Trait (This can be a skill or a stat, your call). This trait has a Die type such as any other skill or stat.

Rich gives a +1 to this Wealth Rolls, Very Rich gives a +2 to rolls.

Each piece of equipment that is purchasable has a roll modifier.

To purchase a piece of equipment, roll a die check with all modifiers. If the player succeeds, they purchase the equipment.

If they fail the check, they may trade in one die level per point shy to purchase the equipment. They cannot reduce wealth to below D4.

I'm not sure how to handle selling at the moment.

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#2 Postby Thunderforge » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:02 pm

I think it might work if you got a d4 in Wealth at the start of the campaign. One possible use of spending a hindrance point would be to increase the Wealth die by one level, rather than increasing your starting cash by $500 (or the standard setting amount).

If you're allowing players to trade in die types for failed Wealth rolls, then you could let them increase their Wealth die by one type for every rank they earn to represent pay, loot, selling unused items, and other monetary rewards they may obtain.

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#3 Postby VonDan » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:12 pm

I had a rough wealth system once I let the player find a hord of wealth but it was all in rough raw gold nuggets & gems, elephant tusk and animal hides. Teh thay had to spend weeks roughing it finding a way to carry it all back to town

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#4 Postby robert4818 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:48 pm

Thunderforge wrote:I think it might work if you got a d4 in Wealth at the start of the campaign. One possible use of spending a hindrance point would be to increase the Wealth die by one level, rather than increasing your starting cash by $500 (or the standard setting amount).

If you're allowing players to trade in die types for failed Wealth rolls, then you could let them increase their Wealth die by one type for every rank they earn to represent pay, loot, selling unused items, and other monetary rewards they may obtain.


I like it.

Poor might be a -1 on all die rolls, and a cap of D6 wealth...

Perhaps the other thing for selling would be a +1 die level up to a max die level for selling.

I.e. an entry might be:

Car: Roll Mod -1, Max Sell D6.

Meaning to buy it you roll your wealth with a -1 stat, selling it would raise you one die level, to a max of D6.

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#5 Postby 77IM » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:07 pm

To sell, you make the same check, only you want to fail. If you succeed, it's because you have so much wealth that selling this thing isn't going to make a difference. If you fail, then your wealth is so low that this thing is going to make a difference. Increase your die type 1 size per point of difference, up to a max of the modifier.


I like the idea behind this system, but because of Acing you will get some weird results. Like the guy with d4 wealth can get lucky and buy an aircraft carrier due to acing 4 times. Seems a little hard to explain to me.

You could say that if the penalty exceeds your die size you just can't buy it, period.

-- 77IM

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#6 Postby robert4818 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:34 pm

77IM wrote:To sell, you make the same check, only you want to fail. If you succeed, it's because you have so much wealth that selling this thing isn't going to make a difference. If you fail, then your wealth is so low that this thing is going to make a difference. Increase your die type 1 size per point of difference, up to a max of the modifier.


I like the idea behind this system, but because of Acing you will get some weird results. Like the guy with d4 wealth can get lucky and buy an aircraft carrier due to acing 4 times. Seems a little hard to explain to me.

You could say that if the penalty exceeds your die size you just can't buy it, period.

-- 77IM


I dunno, I'm sure your right, But I can't help but wonder what sort of Aircraft Carrier a guy can get with a D4 wealth.....plot hooks!

With that route, you'd need to give die types to Rich and Filthy Rich (d10, d12) in addition to the +1, +2.

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#7 Postby Oneiros » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:36 pm

Check out the Wealth system in the article "I’d buy that for a dollar!" from Shark Bytes Volume 1 Issue 1 (http://savagepedia.wikispaces.com/Shark+Bytes)

In it, when you sell an item, you get a Windfall, which is a one shot bonus you can spend on a wealth check for something else.

So if you sell an item for a +2 Windfall, you can add +2 to a single wealth check, or +1 to two different checks. Once used, the bonus is gone, as you've spent your temporary surplus cash and are back to your standard Wealth.

You can also potentially incur Debt, which is a penalty to Wealth checks which must be bought off, usually by spending a Windfall to counter it.
Last edited by Oneiros on Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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#8 Postby razorwise » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:07 am

Hello!

We've been chatting about Wealth for one of our settings, but haven't put pen to paper. Some quick thoughts about Wealth.

If you want to use a Wealth die, the easy fix would be to say it doesn't Ace nor get a Wild Die (using the precedent of Running.) Then you could modify the two wealth related Edges accordingly:

Rich (Prereq: Wealth d6+) would add a Wild Die.

Filthy Rich (Prereq: Rich, Wealth d8+) would also allow your dice to Ace.

Note: These have not been tested. If you give them a spin, please let me know.

Regards,

Sean

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#9 Postby razorwise » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:41 pm

Inspired, I wrote a bit more about the topic on today's Razorwise Report. Feel free to come by and discuss.

Take care,

Sean

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#10 Postby Zadmar » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:07 am

I threw together a wealth system for a brief Serenity-inspired sci-fi campaign at the end of last year - the PCs were the captain and crew of a small spaceship, and made their money from trading (and smuggling). It worked okay, but in future I think I'd probably use the system from M&M instead. Anyway, this is how it worked:


Everyone starts with a Wealth of d6 (and a Debt of 0).

When you make a purchase for something significant, the GM assigns a TN to it, reflecting its cost. If it would require a raise to reach the TN, the GM may rule that it's out of your price range, in which case you can't even roll.

If multiple characters wish to pool their funds to make a purchase, they should all make a roll - take the highest result, but apply any Wealth wounds equally to every character.

Raise: You purchase it.
Success: You purchase it, but take 1 wealth wound.
Failure: You purchase it, but take 2 wealth wounds.
Critical failure: As failure, but the item is defective or has some other drawback, determined by the GM.

You may also choose to "shop carefully". This gives you -2 on your roll, but if you get a failure you make no purchase and suffer no wealth wounds. A critical failure results in a defective purchase, but only inflicts 1 wealth wound.

Your first wound is 'strapped' (the equivalent of 'shaken'), any wounds beyond that will permanently lower your Wealth die by 1. If you drop below d4 you are 'broke', but may still roll your Wild Die to make purchases. Each wound beyond that gives you a level of Debt.

You normally have a Debt of 0, but you may borrow cash if you wish, increasing both your Wealth and Debt dice by 1 step. Likewise, if you make purchases with cash you don't have, your Debt will also increase. Whenever your Debt increases, make a Debt roll vs TN 4 - if successful, the Debt increases by 1 (you do NOT roll again due to this increase however). Likewise, every so often the GM may request another Debt roll to see if it has increased through interest. Should the Debt reach d12, further increases will grant the Wanted hindrance (first minor, then major) and then stop.

Paying off a point of Debt requires a Wealth roll against a TN equal to half the Debt, with a -1/-2 penalty for Wanted as a minor/major hindrance. You may keep rolling until you run out of Wealth (or Debt). It is also possible to pay off other people's Debts. The Wanted hindrance usually vanishes once the Debt has been fully paid off.

Poverty: You don't have the 'Strapped' wound level.
Rich/Noble: You gain +2 to all Wealth rolls.
Filthy Rich: You gain +4 to all Wealth rolls.

Earning cash: At appropriate points in the game, players have the opportunity to raise their Wealth. This shouldn't occur too often (I find once per session seems to work well) - it's normally the result of the characters being paid for completing a job, selling off the loot they've earned, trading their cargo at a space port, etc.

If you're using a skill to make your money (such as Streetwise to trade illegal goods, Knowledge (Computers) to do computer work, etc) you should make a skill roll - or you may use Common Knowledge at a -2 penalty (which cancels out the normal +2 if you're doing work related to your background). If the work is illegal you may add +2 to the roll, but on a critical failure you get caught.

If it's payment for a job that can't really be tied to a specific skill (or which is agreed in advance), the die rolled should depend on the size of the payment, with d4 for a small payment, d6 for medium, etc - and you should roll a Wild Die as well. If there are multiple separate payments, take the highest and apply a modifier of +1 for 2 payments or +2 for 3 or more payments.

If multiple characters are being paid at the same time, make a single roll and apply it against each of their TNs - the TN is half their Wealth die. On a success or better, the 'strapped' wound (if any) will be removed. On a raise, the character's Wealth also increases by 1.

If the money comes from trading, smuggling, gambling or some sort of investment, then a critical failure inflicts 1 Wealth wound. If a loss of Wealth doesn't make sense (for example you're selling goods that you stole rather than bought, or you're being paid) then a critical failure indicates that you've been double-crossed, paid with forged currency, can't shift the goods, or something equally unpleasant.

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#11 Postby robert4818 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:35 am

razorwise wrote:Inspired, I wrote a bit more about the topic on today's Razorwise Report. Feel free to come by and discuss.

Take care,

Sean


Which is the point of posting even a rough, half finished idea. They can provide LOTS of inspiration to others.

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#12 Postby Lord Inar » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:54 pm

Hi Robert,

Gaslight has such a wealth system with all goods using having a given TN to purchase. You could check that out and tweak as needed as well.

- Marc

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#13 Postby Ham » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:11 am

Oneiros wrote:Check out the Wealth system in the article "I’d buy that for a dollar!" from Shark Bytes Volume 1 Issue 1 (http://savagepedia.wikispaces.com/Shark+Bytes)


I started using this system (with a few slight modifications) for the savage sword & sorcery (low fantasy, inspired by Conan) campaign I'm running. I think it works a lot better than counting coins. I like the way it helped me switch from "You find 200 gp in the chest and a ruby worth 500gp" to a more descriptive style: a bag of silver coins, you are wading up to your armpits in gold and gems, etc... I just need to have a rough idea how much windfall it's worth. Also it's easier for the players to spend/lose. A few characters are crazy enough to lurk about forgotten tombs for fun, but for most I think the motivation is wealth. The more coins my players had written down the more I had to come up with crazy ways to get rid of it to keep up the motivation to keep adventuring for a bagful of coins.

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#14 Postby Merlin_Sylver » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:20 pm

I'm using a different kind of system for a modern dark fantasy setting I've been running: it's pretty simple, and seems to be working pretty well so far.

Basically, I have a 'Wealth Track' at the bottom of the character sheet (alternatively, this can be expressed as a numerical rating). The track consists of 10 'pips' that can be filled in or erased as needed. A character begins play with 3 pips (1 if Poor, 5 if Rich and 7 if Very Rich).

Along with this, I have a small chart that tells me what sort of lifestyle each pip represents, along with common vehicle types for each wealth level: With a 1, the character is living in a roach-infested apartment with a crack dealer on one side and a welfare octomom on the other. With a 10, the character lives in a manor on mansion, has access to an array of fancy vehicles.

For gear, each item is given a commensurate wealth level. If a character has a wealth level equal to or greater than that item's cost, then that character can easily purchase the item without affecting their wealth level at all. If the item is higher in cost than the wealth level in question, the item can still be bought, but it reduces the character's wealth by the same number of pips the item exceeds it by (for example, if the character has a wealth of 5 and buys a car that has a cost of 7, his wealth drops by 2 points).

Admittedly, this really works best in a situation where finance is a bit complicated, such as in our modern world. When credit, debit, savings accounts, investments and residual incomes come into play, it's just far too much to keep up with on a character sheet. For fantasy settings, I still crunch out coins and treasure for them to sell, largely because my players enjoy 'jingling their money pouches'.
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#15 Postby 77IM » Sun May 01, 2011 5:35 pm

I found an old thread on this topic (http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28810) with some ideas you might want to check out. One idea I had was to treat wealth like Charisma and have it modify a "reaction roll" rather than treating it like a trait. (Although the more I look at Sean P.'s idea of using Rich and Very Rich to get the Wild Die and Acing, the more I like it...).

-- 77IM

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#16 Postby DeMyztikX » Sun May 01, 2011 10:37 pm

77IM wrote:I like the idea behind this system, but because of Acing you will get some weird results. Like the guy with d4 wealth can get lucky and buy an aircraft carrier due to acing 4 times. Seems a little hard to explain to me.
-- 77IM


Hey, I found it at Goodwill.

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#17 Postby razorwise » Mon May 02, 2011 8:56 am

77IM wrote: (Although the more I look at Sean P.'s idea of using Rich and Very Rich to get the Wild Die and Acing, the more I like it...).

-- 77IM


Thanks!

At the behest of ValhallaGH, I expanded out my thoughts a tad bit more, re: Poverty.

A couple different angles of approach.

Poverty: The character receives -2 to all Wealth rolls. Each die type increase in Wealth takes two leveling opportunities.

Alternately, you could say all purchases are treated as one Level Higher (i.e. Free becomes cheap, and so on.)

A combination is possible as well (but it doubles the penalties, so might be better served as a Dirt Poor hindrance).

Certainly, more care would be required to sort out all the specifics for a particular setting. At present, it requires a bit of lifting from the GM, but these mechanics work on a coarse level.

Poverty naturally precludes gaining the Rich or Filthy Rich Edges, though if it wasn't exclusionary a character with Poverty and Rich might represent characters with wealth either tied up in a trust fund or rises and dips based upon market factor or dependent upon a fluctuating base (stock markets, etcetera).

Regards,

Sean

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#18 Postby 77IM » Mon May 02, 2011 12:46 pm

You could do:

Poverty: No Wild Die, no Acing.
Normal: Wild Die d6, no Acing.
Rich: Wild Die d10, no Acing.
Very Rich: Wild Die d10, Acing.


-- 77IM

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#19 Postby Sitting Duck » Tue May 03, 2011 8:38 am

DeMyztikX wrote:
77IM wrote:I like the idea behind this system, but because of Acing you will get some weird results. Like the guy with d4 wealth can get lucky and buy an aircraft carrier due to acing 4 times. Seems a little hard to explain to me.
-- 77IM


Hey, I found it at Goodwill.


Or it was military surplus.
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