Rules you just blatantly ignore?

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77IM
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#41 Postby 77IM » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:08 pm

Clint wrote:
77IM wrote: - We don't require Tricks to be done at melee range.


Oddly enough, neither do the actual rules. ;)

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#42 Postby newForumNewName » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:52 pm

Clint wrote:
screenmonkey wrote:We ignore the "no you don't get to roll for xp with your left over bennies at the end of the session" rule. :1eek13:


Is it possible to ignore the non-existence of something? ;)

Yes.
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#43 Postby PencilBoy99 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:41 pm

Virgobrown72 wrote:Ranges. Yep, believe or not, ranges. For my games, all ranges are broken down into :

Close Combat
Short Range
Medium Range
Long Range
Ballistic Range

All range modifiers still apply, and a weapon that can fire at one range can fire at all increments below it's own( For example, a scoped rifle can fire at long, medium and short) accept ballistic ranges, which are fired on a ballistic arc. This is FFF for role playing purposes for me, because I'm not trying to decide just how many meters away a target is in theiddlw of a rapid role playing session.


I love this idea. Just to make sure I understand (please correct):

1. Each weapon type has one of the above assigned to it (e.g, derringer or throwing knife might be Short Range;
2. It can shoot at that range or any lower range with NO penalty for distance
3. It cannot shoot higher than that range

OR

2. It can shoot at that range with no penalty
3. For each range increment above its intended range, it gets a (...) penalty of some kind

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#44 Postby PencilBoy99 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:41 pm

Virgobrown72 wrote:Ranges. Yep, believe or not, ranges. For my games, all ranges are broken down into :

Close Combat
Short Range
Medium Range
Long Range
Ballistic Range

All range modifiers still apply, and a weapon that can fire at one range can fire at all increments below it's own( For example, a scoped rifle can fire at long, medium and short) accept ballistic ranges, which are fired on a ballistic arc. This is FFF for role playing purposes for me, because I'm not trying to decide just how many meters away a target is in theiddlw of a rapid role playing session.


I love this idea. Just to make sure I understand (please correct):

1. Each weapon type has one of the above assigned to it (e.g, derringer or throwing knife might be Short Range;
2. It can shoot at that range or any lower range with NO penalty for distance
3. It cannot shoot higher than that range

OR

2. It can shoot at that range with no penalty
3. For each range increment above its intended range, it gets a (...) penalty of some kind

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#45 Postby ogbendog » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:21 pm

so a pistol never has range penalites to hit? odd.

for encumbrance, really, you pretty much only do the math once.
dropping a backpack is fine, but there were no quick release straps in the middle ages.

I like the idea of having min st for armor,
d4 leather
d6 chain
d8 plate

a small shield is "free", a medium bumps the st requirement (so leather + med shield requires d6 st6)

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#46 Postby PencilBoy99 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:16 pm

in re pistol, yea, that was my question. I think it should be harder to hit things that are far away, but I like keeping the rules as FFF (simple) as possible and support not using minis if you want.

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#47 Postby ogbendog » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:36 pm

I remember classic traveller had a similar system

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#48 Postby Shadowdragon » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:50 pm

We ignore the instant stand from prone when attacked rule as well. We also fudge ranges, aoes, and facing, but only because we don't play with miniatures. Other than those things and some setting-specific house rules (basing thrown weapon ranges on the thrower's strength, removing Guts and just using Spirit, no-PP magic, etc) we play the game as written.

- Ignore instant stand when attacked
- fudge ranges, aoes, and faceing for no-miniatures play
- base throwing distances on throwers Strength
- use Spirit instead of Guts
- use no-PP magic system
Last edited by Shadowdragon on Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#49 Postby PencilBoy99 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:02 pm

Shadowdragon, can you bullet point your house rules? I'd like to use them for my "narrative combat" house rule list.

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#50 Postby Giggidy » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:57 pm

Virgobrown72 wrote:Ranges. Yep, believe or not, ranges. For my games, all ranges are broken down into :

Close Combat
Short Range
Medium Range
Long Range
Ballistic Range


I'm working on writing a new RPG and I did the same thing for my combat system. I used to love long lists of detailed weapons with specific ranges and slightly different damage values, but I realized that I never really use them in play. It always comes down to "small gun", "medium gun", "big gun", and "don't point that at my planet". When you're not using a map, making the GM think about precise yards/meters slows everything down but it's easy to describe distances as "far" or "close" or "melee range" or whatever. Even if the GM told you "he's 10 meters away" and you could picture 10 meters in your head, you'd be thinking of it as "fairly close" or "that's about as wide as this room" or other imprecise measurements anyway.

I decided that I don't want to play like a chess match: "I'm going to move three squares to Queen's Rook 4 then shoot that guy in the back on QR8, that's a range of 4 squares so my to hit penalty is..."

I want to play like an action movie: "I'm going to dive behind the couch then shoot at the guy who just jumped in through the window. The range is 'in the same room with me'."
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Re: Rules you just blatantly ignore?

#51 Postby chatterbox » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:35 am

This one, I felt the by-the-book rule encouraged taking anything you ever wanted to be able to do at d4. Now you can start out more skilled in your specialties, and pick up that other stuff cheaply as you advance.
Thunderforge wrote:All of us independently decided that we didn't like the rule that it takes a full advance to buy a skill at a d4 after character creation. So we ignore that and it now takes 1 skill point, just like at character creation.

I also don't allow automatic standing from prone if attacked in melee - IF you didn't drop prone willingly. I added some strength action/"tricks" of a sort for pushing people around or knocking them prone.

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#52 Postby newForumNewName » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:38 am

Come to think of it, I don't allow automatic standing from prone. But that was mostly because I'd glossed over that section of the rules. I think I'd still charge the character 2" of movement though.
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#53 Postby Old One Eye » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:26 am

Thus far, I haven't seen a purpose for Heavy Armor/Heavy Weapons and dropped them.

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#54 Postby newForumNewName » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:53 am

Old One Eye wrote:Thus far, I haven't seen a purpose for Heavy Armor/Heavy Weapons and dropped them.

So that a lucky pistol shot or punch can't destroy a tank.
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#55 Postby Old One Eye » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 am

newForumNewName wrote:
Old One Eye wrote:Thus far, I haven't seen a purpose for Heavy Armor/Heavy Weapons and dropped them.

So that a lucky pistol shot or punch can't destroy a tank.


I don't have any official tank stats, so I don't know what the suggested toughness would be.

However, homebrewing up some vehicles, I have a basic tank pegged with a toughness of 36 (24). If a double-tapping 9mm hitting with a raise dealing its 3d6+1 damage can scratch that monstrosity, I'm giving the player a high-five.

Granted, my homebrew method pegs cars, trucks, and things slightly tougher than the Explorer Edition, so my tank stats may or may not be higher than the norm.

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#56 Postby ValhallaGH » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:54 am

Old One Eye wrote:However, homebrewing up some vehicles, I have a basic tank pegged with a toughness of 36 (24). If a double-tapping 9mm hitting with a raise dealing its 3d6+1 damage can scratch that monstrosity, I'm giving the player a high-five.

Be prepared to give a lot of high fives (9mm is AP 1). I saw 3 30+ damage rolls in my session last night, and the PCs only dealt damage 14 times.


The toughness of a tank really depends upon the era and specific kind you're making. (Toughness is Front / Sides / Top & Bottom)
WW 1? 0.5" armor = 11/11/10 (1/1/0) Heavy Armor.
WW 2? All over the place, but even the Sherman had 4". Sherman ~ 18/12/10 (10/4/2) Heavy Armor.
Gulf War? T72 has ~ 64/54/24 (50/40/10) and the M1 has ~100/74/29 (86/60/15), Heavy Armor.

Shooting an M1 Abrams with a pistol shouldn't have a prayer of doing anything (unless you open up a maintenance port and start shooting the engine directly, bypassing the armor entirely). Heavy Armor exists to remove that prayer, without having to make heavy weapons / armored vehicles super-stupid- damaging / tough.
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#57 Postby Cryonic » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:03 am

Old One Eye wrote:
newForumNewName wrote:
Old One Eye wrote:Thus far, I haven't seen a purpose for Heavy Armor/Heavy Weapons and dropped them.

So that a lucky pistol shot or punch can't destroy a tank.


I don't have any official tank stats, so I don't know what the suggested toughness would be.

However, homebrewing up some vehicles, I have a basic tank pegged with a toughness of 36 (24). If a double-tapping 9mm hitting with a raise dealing its 3d6+1 damage can scratch that monstrosity, I'm giving the player a high-five.

Granted, my homebrew method pegs cars, trucks, and things slightly tougher than the Explorer Edition, so my tank stats may or may not be higher than the norm.


The advantage of using the Heavy Armor/Heavy Weapons is that you don't end up with huge numbers for damage and defense on these larger targets. So, instead of having to give things like tanks a toughness of 36 (which means the weapons they fire now have to be scaled up to something like 12d6 for another tank to have a decent chance of killing it).
Also, IIRC, Heavy Weapons ignore non-Heavy armor. So a cannon will ignore even platemail worn by a knight, but won't ignore the armor of a castle wall.
Star Wars D6 did the same thing by using a Scale Value for larger things (character, speeder, walker, starfighter, capital, deathstar). Granted, it didn't stop the amount of skill dice from getting insane, but it did keep the dice down on weapons.
Another thing, the fewer dice you roll, the more variable the result can become. Rolling 12d6 is going to roll right around average far more often than it will results farther away.

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#58 Postby Pariah74 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:31 am

Clint wrote:What he said. It's not about a straight out sprint; it's about trying to move fast in the middle of a combat or chase where the character could get distracted, tripped up, etc.

It's also about game play. There's little to no tension to being able to automatically run X distance without any chance of "failure." A random roll adds the tension of "Will I make it to the bomb, enemy, last Mountain Dew, etc. in time???"


That's why when I used the d4+2 house rule I didn't just go with double move. The only problem I had was the bummer of burning an action to move 1 extra inch. That may be fast and furious but it isn't fun.

The only rule I flat out ignore is the shield facing rule. It's not fast, and it contradicts an earlier description of combat. If the combatants are moving around and circling each other when somebody is firing into melee, then why are we bothering to worry about what hand is holding the shield?

It's the same reason I hate the flanking rules in D&D 3 and 4. Why does my rogue need to be standing in the square opposite another player to get the back-stabbage-cabbage? I thought the combatants were moving around and circling each other and all of that. Stupid. Apparently they mean they are twirling their individual 5' areas. :lol:


I am surprised so many ignore encumbrance. For a game like Deadlands or something where armor wasn't important I might think about it, but I love the way Savage Worlds make encumbrance important...you can't be fully armored without being a strong person, which means sacrificing some other Traits which means you still have a weakness.

I mean, in some of your games out there I would be a Wizard with Arcane Resistance and the Armor spell, and wear full plate and helm. Why be a fighter?
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#59 Postby kreider204 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:10 pm

Again, many of us are not IGNORING encumbrance - we are just being less formal - and perhaps a bit more generous - about it. I still use encumbrance - I just eyeball it rather than worrying about the exact accounting of it. I also impose minimum strength requirements for armor, so that Wizard of yours is still going to have to spread attribute points around if he wants a high enough strength to wear full plate (it's d10 for me) and still be able to carry anything else like gear or a weapon.
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#60 Postby Mylon » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:13 pm

Cryonic wrote:Also, IIRC, Heavy Weapons ignore non-Heavy armor. So a cannon will ignore even platemail worn by a knight, but won't ignore the armor of a castle wall.


This isn't true. Normal armor still protects against heavy weapons.

But when you're dealing with a 0.50 cal rifle that does 2d10 and AP 4, it's going to hurt someone wearing a flak jacket anyhow.


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