Continued Adventures of Danger Inc.

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Ultimoose
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Continued Adventures of Danger Inc.

#1 Postby Ultimoose » Wed May 19, 2010 11:06 am

I've got another walkthrough of a set of SW encounters trying to teach myself the intricacies of the rules. Some of you were kind and generous enough to check my first try at SW and pointed out a few mistakes for me which I really appreciate.

I've got another posting, continuing the adventures of Jack, Mary Alice and Pete as they go about their career as P.I.'s in the Roaring 20's of Chicago and if anyone has a few minutes to read through it and point any obvious mistakes I'm making I'd appreciate that as well. :) I do try and make them at least slightly entertaining. :)

What I found enlightening with this run through is 3 Wild Cards versus 6 Extras+1 Wild Card can be an impossible fight under the right circumstances. I had to back track and remove two of the Extras as it was a TPK the first time. Unlike 4th edition which I'm coming out of where 6 Minions and an Elite/Solo would typically be a minor road bump for 3 characters. The biggest issue I believe with the SW encounter was the combined Gang-Up bonus on top of the Unarmed Defender caused by Melee versus Ranged. +4 to hit is brutal and combine that with having to attack Parry instead of a 4 when shooting.

It's easier to get a Gang Up bonus in SW than it is to get a Combat Advantage in 4E and there isn't an equivalent to the Unarmed Defender bonus/penalty.

So getting balanced encounters is still a work in progress for me with SW's.

Sorry for the external link but the formatting goes kaflooie if I try and paste it here.

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#2 Postby Tavis » Wed May 19, 2010 6:07 pm

Couple of things I spotted ...

Movement up to a character's Pace isn't an action - and doesn't incur MAP - but Running is an action, and does.

When acting on a Joker, a character (or Extra) gets +2 to all trait rolls.
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#3 Postby Takeda » Thu May 20, 2010 12:12 pm

Very good. I'd agree with Tavis.

If they move only their regular pace no MAP but if they move the adjusted pace (more than 6) the MAP is appropriate. I like that alternate "running pace" rule ... I'm going to do that from now on. Less die rolling and more game-play is FFF!

It's a good example of how Bennies can make a game flow ... I need to do that more often ... but also a reminder to players to work with the GM to make the game flow and be fun ... more FFF and the Bennies will flow too.

I like that you've reduced a tactical 1" to 5' instead of the standard 6' ... makes it easier to calculate and if it's consistently applied is not a big change. Telling someone it's about 100' away and they have to divide 100' by 6' to get inches is annoying and let's be honest, as GMs most of don't think in inches, we think in feet, yards, miles, centimeters, meters and kilometers.

One question I should ask Clint though ... I can see a bow not being a melee weapon but being that you can pistol-whip someone maybe a pistol is considered a melee weapon for the purposes of the Unarmed Defender rule? I'll look.

Having a pistol like some were during the 16th-18th centuries with a folding mini-bayonet built into it ... that I would say was definitely both a melee and ranged weapon. Perhaps there would be a -1 penalty to fire it (bad balance/weight) while the mini-bayonet was fixed in place?
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[Dean nods]
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#4 Postby Sadric » Thu May 20, 2010 3:09 pm

I think I read that a pistol count as armed, only a rifle you couldnt use against a close combatant counst as unarmed. But Maybe Im wrong.

And I have to reread healing. I allways played that you could make only one sucesfull healing roll. Not all that are theoretical possible in the golden hour (max 6 rolls). I had allowed more then one roll only with magic.

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#5 Postby ogbendog » Thu May 20, 2010 3:54 pm

A pistol or rifle is armed if you can parry an incomming attack with one, as well as you could with a sword or club or etc.

That's the basis of the unarmed defender rule, all you can do is duck or dodge, you can't parry.

So if you can parry with a pistol, then having one is armed.

Personally, I'd be tempted to say that a pistol is -1 to parry and a rifle is armed.
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#6 Postby Takeda » Thu May 20, 2010 4:16 pm

iirc a post by Clint you could keep plugging away for the Golden Hour and the results 'Wounds recovered' are applied as they accrue.

Some debate on them converting to fatigue until recovered too iirc.
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Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"

[Dean nods]

Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"

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#7 Postby jerepp » Thu May 20, 2010 4:32 pm

Also note that a common setting rule in 2 fisted pulp settings is that there is no unarmed defender rule.

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#8 Postby Ultimoose » Fri May 21, 2010 8:26 am

Coming in from a 6 month 4th Edition campaign continuing to use 5' per inch was an obvious first house rule thing purely for the sake of speed of computation. 100' = 20 squares is almost automatic conversion for most people, 100' = 16.6 squares tends to take a little longer and I'm all about the speed of game play. YMMV of course.

The alternate pace option just seems to make sense to me, as a long time runner your pace just doesn't vary by as much as a 6+1d6 or worse with a 6+1d10 yields every 6 seconds. Over the long run a 6+1d6 is going to run 9 and a 6+1d10 is going to run 11. And like someone mentioned it removes one more die roll and another bit of bookkeeping. And lord knows SW has dice rolls enough what with the wild die for almost every roll on top of the regular trait roll and then another 2+ die rolls for damage typically without adding in aces. :)

I was basing that Unarmed Defender bonus on this post by Clint -

Unarmed Defender of page 72 of SWEX states that "If one character has a melee weapon and his foe doesn’t, the opponent is considered unarmed..." Since a pistol is not a melee weapon, the character using one would be considered "unarmed," granting opponents the unarmed defender bonus.

At a house rule level I'm a little ambivalent and it does seem plausible that using the improvised melee rules could apply and unofficially it appears Clint does that as well but officially per RAW (SWEX:3P) it does appear that a pistol doesn't count.

Technically per RAW even a rifle/shotgun apparently doesn't count because it's not classified as a melee weapon also per a post by Clint.

Of course this always subject to GM decision/fiat but I can see part of parry being the attackers hesitation to attack for fear of taking a return blow as from a sharp or blunt object that might do considerable damage. Getting whacked with a pistol barrel while it's going to sting isn't really something I'd fear. Perhaps a long barreled pistol that's reversed to use as a club but not one that's held ready to shoot.

Posts with official rulings-

http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... ol+unarmed

http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... ol+unarmed

In regards to the MAP for running if you're talking about during the Chase scene then per Page 116 of the SWEX:3P "Also note that do to the abstract nature of the chase rules, characters do not suffer a MAP for running, it's inclusive to the Agility roll being made."

If I missed it somewhere else then that was a fleeting oversight on my part during the writing.

Thanks to everyone for reading the post and pointing things out, every comment helps cement my understanding of the SW ruleset.

Now I need to really get a handle on the edges and what they do, reading stat blocks where creatures simply have the edge listed doesn't help much if you have to keep looking them up. :) For awhile I'm going to have to write them out on my own stat blocks "Ambidextrous (ignores off hand penalty), Rock and Roll (ignores full auto penalty)" that kind of thing until I'm familiar with it.

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#9 Postby Takeda » Fri May 21, 2010 9:03 am

>>Ultimoose: Well I for one love what you've been doing and would be happy to play in your game! There's that page in the SWEX that lists all the Edges with a brief summary of the benefits. For your own use copy that and have it handy. That way you can leave the Stat Blocks small to keep it quick to read/use.
Dean: "Ya' know she could be faking."

Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"

[Dean nods]

Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"

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#10 Postby Clint » Fri May 21, 2010 9:47 am

Ultimoose wrote:The alternate pace option just seems to make sense to me, as a long time runner your pace just doesn't vary by as much as a 6+1d6 or worse with a 6+1d10 yields every 6 seconds. Over the long run a 6+1d6 is going to run 9 and a 6+1d10 is going to run 11. And like someone mentioned it removes one more die roll and another bit of bookkeeping. And lord knows SW has dice rolls enough what with the wild die for almost every roll on top of the regular trait roll and then another 2+ die rolls for damage typically without adding in aces. :)


I think you mean 8+1d10 not 6+1d10 as to get the d10 Running die requires Fleet Footed which also provides a base +2 to Pace (6+2=8).

Also, there would have been no die roll for Running since this was a Chase sequence not normal combat.

And just to point out one aspect that may have been missed. By making Running Pace equal Pace+Agility/2 and then providing the bonus for faster characters which now comes directly from that higher Agility, it results in a "double-dipping" effect for Chases where characters are rolling their Agility. In short, they not only have a better chance for having a higher Agility, but they are getting a bonus to the Agility roll for having a higher Agility.

Ultimoose wrote:At a house rule level I'm a little ambivalent and it does seem plausible that using the improvised melee rules could apply and unofficially it appears Clint does that as well but officially per RAW (SWEX:3P) it does appear that a pistol doesn't count.


True dat, but again RAW, every setting should have Setting Rules to fit the style of the game. As I've said many times, SW is a core system not a universal one. So by the rules, adding, changing, or removing rules is, well, a rule. :-D

Though someday I think I'd like to get the Improvised Weapon rules into the core book; it does have so many uses (like using a ranged weapon in melee).
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#11 Postby 77IM » Fri May 21, 2010 4:07 pm

Wait, what is this Improvised Weapon rule?

I've been just saying that most anything can be a club (Str+d4) or larger 2-handed items can be a really big club (Str+d6). So by that standard the pistol and rifle can be an improvised weapon (no Unarmed Defender) but like a bow or sling could not. Is there a better way that people do it?

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#12 Postby Clint » Fri May 21, 2010 8:19 pm

77IM wrote:Wait, what is this Improvised Weapon rule?

I've been just saying that most anything can be a club (Str+d4) or larger 2-handed items can be a really big club (Str+d6). So by that standard the pistol and rifle can be an improvised weapon (no Unarmed Defender) but like a bow or sling could not. Is there a better way that people do it?


Well, some of the settings and toolkits have Improvised Weapon rules, where stats are given for Small, Medium, or Large items used as weapons. There is a penalty to their use (different in some products, but I have my preferred one), and typically the product also has the Improvised Weapon Master Edge (or the like) allowing a character to ignore those penalties.
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