Sharing Player Guide Pdf's

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glacius
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Sharing Player Guide Pdf's

#1 Postby glacius » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:01 pm

Hi guys I purchased the slipstream players guide and campaign guide for slipstream some time ago, I have a new online campaign getting ready to start. I recall reading somewhere that a GM can share the players guides with his players. Is this true? Where is the info on this?

Thanks

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inlife9
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#2 Postby inlife9 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:08 pm

never mind. I was wrong.
Last edited by inlife9 on Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sharing Player Guide Pdf's

#3 Postby UmbraLux » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:27 pm

glacius wrote:Hi guys I purchased the slipstream players guide and campaign guide for slipstream some time ago, I have a new online campaign getting ready to start. I recall reading somewhere that a GM can share the players guides with his players. Is this true? Where is the info on this?
Some (perhaps all, I'm uncertain) of Pinnacle's player guides contained a copyright statement allowing limited sharing. Look for that copyright statement! The material is (usually) copyrighted with some or all rights reserved. Legally, you need to abide by whatever legal restrictions they contain.

But seek legal advice (or default to 'all rights are reserved') if you're uncertain. I'm no lawyer.

Edit: Here's an example:
Deadlands PG wrote:Great White Games hereby grants the Game Master a “site license” to print this document for each player in her personal game. No electronic transfer of this document is intended or implied. We thank you for your support, and hope that this license helps you preserve your book and better enjoy your game!
Note the print requirement among others...

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#4 Postby HaraldKlak » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:40 pm

I've been wondering this too, thanks for clearing this up.

The explanation of NE players guide in the store is a tad confusing (mostly due to the deadlands stuff :wink: ):

Player's Guides
Our player's guides provide the first section of each of our Savage Settings and let players get all the information they need without revealing any GM secrets. Even better, the Deadlands: Reloaded Players' Guide contains a "site license" that lets you print a copy for each of your players so they'll have the rules they need for their heroes at their fingertips. Give 'em a Players' Guide, Marshal, and let your posse do the work!

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Re: Sharing Player Guide Pdf's

#5 Postby Clint » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:08 am

glacius wrote:Hi guys I purchased the slipstream players guide and campaign guide for slipstream some time ago, I have a new online campaign getting ready to start. I recall reading somewhere that a GM can share the players guides with his players. Is this true? Where is the info on this?


As others have stated there is a Site License in the document that explains how it works. The license can typically be found on the first or second page immediately following the cover.
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#6 Postby Cryonic » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:33 pm

HaraldKlak wrote:I've been wondering this too, thanks for clearing this up.

The explanation of NE players guide in the store is a tad confusing (mostly due to the deadlands stuff :wink: ):

Player's Guides
Our player's guides provide the first section of each of our Savage Settings and let players get all the information they need without revealing any GM secrets. Even better, the Deadlands: Reloaded Players' Guide contains a "site license" that lets you print a copy for each of your players so they'll have the rules they need for their heroes at their fingertips. Give 'em a Players' Guide, Marshal, and let your posse do the work!


Actually that reads pretty clear to me since it explicitly states PRINT a copy for the players.

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#7 Postby HaraldKlak » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:43 am

Cryonic wrote: Actually that reads pretty clear to me since it explicitly states PRINT a copy for the players.


That was also my interpretation, but due to the fact that the entire section was speaking of a different game, made me consider that they hadn't been entirely thorough with the content.

The point was moreso that I was interested in a pdf to give to my players and not a print. The quote from Umbra undoubtly states that this is not a possibility with the site license. And the solution of printing it and them scanning it again is a bit much work.
So I'll just stick with using the old version and the new version I already have.

Generally speaking I believe the legal boundries of the license to be bit vague. Mind you, I don't think the intend of the rules a hard to understand, and abuse of the license would in most cases be painfully clear.
But my inherent interest in law (which might very well be tiresome to others :-? ) bids me to add a few comments. Do feel free not to read on.

The terms of GM and players might become a bit of a controversy. By letter of the license, one of my players isn't allowed to buy the players guide and print it for the rest, although I feel fairly confident that none of the legal interests would mind it.
More importantly is the differing wording between the store and the document, where the latter (by UmbraLux's quote) adds the line "in her personal game", by which the use of the printed documents is severely limited. As a buyer it is less than problematic that I am referred to finding my rights in the documents, if I am uncertain whether to buy it or not for the same reasons. Legally I am quite sure that the rights stated prior to the purchase will supercede any that are added afterward, otherwise the sale of the documents is based on a false premise.

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#8 Postby Rohan » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:54 am

I look at PDFs with the same light that I look at print copies. OF COURSE you're going to share them with your friends, lend them to your cousin in New Jersey, and kinda pass them around a little bit. The one thing about the electronic copy is that when you do that, they have a copy and they don't have to give it back.

Don't get me wrong, I want every single one of you to support your publishers and shell out your $1 - $30 dollars for whatever you're buying, whether it's mine or not. I want you to say "that file is SO cool that I'm going to give them money even though my GM has this PDF already."

But I don't expect it. Not really, not in an imperfect world.
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#9 Postby Thasmodious » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:59 pm

I agree with you Rohan. The line between sharing print players guides for a live game and not sharing .pdf players guides for an online game is a fuzzy one at best, especially as so much gaming has moved online. What I can do in person, I expect to do online, including sharing the rules so my game can be played. Once I've bought the .pdf, what is really the difference between making copies for my players and sending it to them versus sending them the .pdf, besides the hassle on my end with the first option. Heck, it's easier to put everything on a zip drive with everyone having laptops and netbooks for face to face tabletop.
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#10 Postby Clint » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:07 am

Thasmodious wrote:Once I've bought the .pdf, what is really the difference between making copies for my players and sending it to them versus sending them the .pdf, besides the hassle on my end with the first option.


Well, in this case, I'd point out that the difference is that the site license does specifically disallow it.

Rohan wrote:But I don't expect it. Not really, not in an imperfect world.


Maybe I'm optimistic, but I expect most people do follow the rules. Oh, I know everyone doesn't do it (trust me, I know), but I hope they are truly the minority. And even then, I don't expect most of that minority to ever pay for a Player's Guide in the first place.

But on the flipside, those that do give away files shouldn't expect publishers to ignore it and let it slide. There is a big difference between loaning a person a copy of a book and giving them their own copy, if in no other way than the latter is illegal (regardless of personal beliefs on the ethics of it). As noted in our rules on the forum, we consider such actions to be the ultimate form of disrespect, and it is one of the few things we consider potential grounds for immediate and permanent banning on our forums, whether it is our IP or someone else's.
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#11 Postby Rohan » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:12 am

Clint, I'll give you all of that, and yes, I think people should pay for their own copies of things, site license or no site license. I'm just not always expecting that minority to do so...or ever expecting them to, really.
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#12 Postby Vinzent » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:30 pm

I provide only the character generation summaries (38-41, 48-53 of the SWEX) for my players. Since we started playing, 3 of my players have gone on to purchase their own books. The last 2 might start now that Star Wars Saga is dead (as they were saving all of their money for the next supplements).

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#13 Postby Thasmodious » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:25 pm

Clint wrote:
Thasmodious wrote:Once I've bought the .pdf, what is really the difference between making copies for my players and sending it to them versus sending them the .pdf, besides the hassle on my end with the first option.


Well, in this case, I'd point out that the difference is that the site license does specifically disallow it.


That's my point, though. The lines are fuzzy and don't really make sense. I understand why it is that way now, but I am lamenting that the publishing/copyright/fair use issues haven't really gelled with the way that gaming has evolved online. I can give my face to face players a wealth of information for my game legally, but I can't give it to my online group, even though the use (from my end) is exactly the same. It's different from the publishers end because digital product is being distributed, and I understand that. But I'm not a publisher, and as such I'm a bit more concerned about the user end and about how consumer rights take a hit when we are talking digital.
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#14 Postby The Angle » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:50 pm

If you do share a PDF with other members of your game group, the least you can do is admonish them that if they like it, they should buy their own copy and delete yours. Not everyone will do it, of course, but decent people probably will.

I have the opposite problem, actually. I have so many gaming PDFs on file (hundreds, literally) that I tend to run across something interesting and buy it, only to realize later that I already had it. If that was a hard copy, I could resell it to someone and recoup some of my stupid loss. With a watermarked PDF, I'm just stuck with it. Cie la sottise.

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#15 Postby jpk » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:34 pm

The Angle wrote:I have the opposite problem, actually. I have so many gaming PDFs on file (hundreds, literally) that I tend to run across something interesting and buy it, only to realize later that I already had it. If that was a hard copy, I could resell it to someone and recoup some of my stupid loss. With a watermarked PDF, I'm just stuck with it. Cie la sottise.

I would like to invite you to get fairly tipsy and browse the Pinnacle web store at your earliest convenience.

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#16 Postby coyote6 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:07 pm

The Angle wrote:I have the opposite problem, actually. I have so many gaming PDFs on file (hundreds, literally) that I tend to run across something interesting and buy it, only to realize later that I already had it. If that was a hard copy, I could resell it to someone and recoup some of my stupid loss. With a watermarked PDF, I'm just stuck with it. Cie la sottise.


We are brothers! I've done that before. Wish I could transfer the PDF to a buddy or something; it ought to be legal, since I bought two copies. Alas...
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