Showdown Troop Builder Cheat Sheet

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Lord Inar
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#21 Postby Lord Inar » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:46 pm

Any OFFICIAL word on this?

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Clint
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#22 Postby Clint » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:25 pm

Lord Inar wrote:Any OFFICIAL word on this?


Shane's off to PAX, so it might take a little while.
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#23 Postby SlasherEpoch » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:29 pm

Lord Inar wrote:So do you use 23 or 27 for your crewmen?


I actually would add that up to 30 points, as for a vehicle crewman I'd consider Driving to be another primary skill (so 6 points altogether).

Then with the discount, I call it 23 points.

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Lord Inar
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#24 Postby Lord Inar » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:21 pm

Clint wrote:
Lord Inar wrote:Any OFFICIAL word on this?


Shane's off to PAX, so it might take a little while.


No problem. Sometimes the Showdown section needs to yell a little louder to get noticed.


SlasherEpoch wrote:
Lord Inar wrote:So do you use 23 or 27 for your crewmen?


I actually would add that up to 30 points, as for a vehicle crewman I'd consider Driving to be another primary skill (so 6 points altogether).

Then with the discount, I call it 23 points.


So do you see that as a common thing, having two or more skills at full cost compared to the others?

I was following your sheets advice and so my Excel sheet automatically takes the first skill at full value and then reduces it for the rest.

Just trying to dot all the "i"s and cross the "t"s as it were, so that I don't require so many exceptions that the sheet is basically unusable.

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#25 Postby John Goff » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:36 pm

Naw--I keep an eye on the forum. Mostly you guys don't need much input from me :wink:

I just didn't have a ready answer and hadn't had time to research it and confer with Shane myself yet. By and large, I'm inclined to agree that it is an error in the computation as noted, but just in case it was intentional, I wanted to mention it to Shane before I made a "ruling".

When I get a definitive answer, I'll pass it along ASAP.
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Lord Inar
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#26 Postby Lord Inar » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:41 pm

John Goff wrote:Naw--I keep an eye on the forum. Mostly you guys don't need much input from me :wink:


Yeah, my comment is based on experience before you became brand manager, I believe.

I'm just pesky because I like to do things right!
But now that i have your attention, please feel free to check it out and use/offer feedback/ignore as desired.

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#27 Postby Lord Inar » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:23 pm

OK, I looked at Rumble in the Jungle and my numbers are pretty close (I don't have the extra -3 for unused skills)

My cost is listed followed by the cost listed in the scenario in brackets:
The text is my output.

Buck Savage - WC Cost: 33 [34]
A:d8, Sm:d6, Sp:d6, St:d6, V:d8
Fighting d8, Shooting d8
Pace: 6; Parry: 6; Toughness 7
GEAR:
• MELEE: Machete (Str+d4)
• RANGED: Tommy Gun (Range 12/24/48, 2d6+1, AP 1, RoF 3)
ABILITIES
Edges: • Brawny, • Combat Reflexes, • Rock and Roll!


Virginia Dare - WC Cost: 18 [18]
A:d8, Sm:d8, Sp:d8, St:d6, V:d6
Fighting d6, Shooting d6
Pace: 6; Parry: 5; Toughness 5
GEAR:
• MELEE: Machete (Str+d4) • RANGED: Colt 1911 (Range 12/24/48, 2d6+1, AP 1, RoF 1)
ABILITIES
Edges: • Alertness

Danny Dare - WC Cost: 18 [15]
A:d8, Sm:d8, Sp:d6, St:d6, V:d4
Shooting d6, Fighting d4
Pace: 6; Parry: 4; Toughness 4 [5 listed]
GEAR:
• MELEE: Machete (Str+d4) • RANGED: .32 Pistol (Range 12/24/48, 2d6-1, AP 1, RoF 1)
ABILITIES
Edges: • Level Headed

Doc Gold - WC Cost: 19 [18] (version 1)
A:d6, Sm:d10, Sp:d6, St:d6, V:d6
Weird Science d8, Shooting d6, Fighting d4
Pace: 6; Parry: 4; Toughness 5 [4 listed]
GEAR:
• MELEE: Machete (Str+d4)
ABILITIES
Edges: • Arcane Background


Doc Gold - WC Cost: 26 (version 2 with bolt power)
A:d6, Sm:d10, Sp:d6, St:d6, V:d6
Weird Science d8, Shooting d6, Fighting d4
Pace: 6; Parry: 4; Toughness 5
GEAR:
• MELEE: Machete (Str+d4) • RANGED: Bolt (Range 12/24/48, 2d6 - 3d6, RoF 3, Max Casting penalty -5)
ABILITIES
Edges: • Arcane Background

Kator - WC Cost: 24 [24]
A:d8, Sm:d4, Sp:d6, St:d8, V:d8
Fighting d8, Throwing d6
Pace: 6; Parry: 8; Toughness 6
GEAR:
• MELEE: Spear (Str+d6, Reach 1, Parry 1) • RANGED: Spear (Range 3/6/12, Str+d6, RoF 1, Shots 1)
ABILITIES
Edges: • Acrobat, • Guardian, • Sweep

Baron Wellingsford - WC Cost: 32 [31]
A:d8, Sm:d8, Sp:d8, St:d8, V:d8
Shooting d12, Fighting d10
Pace: 6; Parry: 8; Toughness 6
GEAR:
• MELEE: Rapier (Str+d4, Parry 1) • RANGED: Elephant Gun (Range 24/48/96, 2d10, AP 2, RoF 1, Snapfire)
ABILITIES
Edges: • Marksman


Poachers Cost: 35 [38]
A:d6, Sm:d6, Sp:d6, St:d6, V:d6
Shooting d6, Fighting d6
Pace: 6; Parry: 5; Toughness 5
GEAR:
• MELEE: Machete (Str+d4) • RANGED: Hunting Rifle (Range 24/48/96, 2d8 , AP 2, RoF 1)
ABILITIES


Native Spears Cost: 31 [38]
A:d6, Sm:d6, Sp:d6, St:d6, V:d6
Fighting d8, Throwing d6
Pace: 6; Parry: 7; Toughness 5 [6 Parry listed]
GEAR:
• MELEE: Spear (Str+d6, Reach 1, Parry 1) • RANGED: Spear (Range 3/6/12, Str+d6, RoF 1, Shots 1)
ABILITIES


Donga - WC Cost: 79 [79]
A:d8, Sm:d8, Sp:d8, St:d12+6, V:d8
Fighting d8, Intimidation d10, Throwing d6
Pace: 10; Parry: 6; Toughness 12
GEAR:
• MELEE: Tree (Str+d20, Reach 3) • RANGED: Boulder (Range 6/12/24, Str+d20, RoF 1, Hvy Wpn)
ABILITIES
Edges: • Strong Willed
Monstrous Abilities: • Fleet Footed (d8), • Gargantuan, • Hardy, • Size category: Large, • Size*(6)

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SlasherEpoch
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#28 Postby SlasherEpoch » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:06 pm

Aha, Inar, I think I got it now.

See, I actually designed my cheat sheet so I could do the figures by hand since I regularly make exceptions like the one I mentioned above. I can nearly guarantee that's why you and I would have slightly different prices for units.

For instance, without doing the math, I pretty much agree with the cost of Danny being lower. Is it RAW? Nah, it's just something I do a lot.

However, can I have a copy of your spreadsheet? I'd love to see how it works.

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#29 Postby Lord Inar » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:33 pm

SlasherEpoch wrote:Aha, Inar, I think I got it now.

See, I actually designed my cheat sheet so I could do the figures by hand since I regularly make exceptions like the one I mentioned above. I can nearly guarantee that's why you and I would have slightly different prices for units.

For instance, without doing the math, I pretty much agree with the cost of Danny being lower. Is it RAW? Nah, it's just something I do a lot.

However, can I have a copy of your spreadsheet? I'd love to see how it works.


Danny's expensive because Level-headed is 10 points!

I think the link I posted earlier should work.

If not, here it is again: [Update: use the latest in the thread below]

It's a zip file that unpacks to an excel sheet.

I don't do it in Google docs because they don't have drop down menus.
Last edited by Lord Inar on Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lord Inar
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#30 Postby Lord Inar » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:54 am

So I'll stop hijacking your thread, I've moved discussion of my sheet to here:
http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 535#291535

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#31 Postby kingofsouls » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:01 pm

I've been using your formulas to calculate the cost of a bear to see if it works. I got 78 for the raw value when the Troop builder says the raw cost is 83. I done goofed but I don't know where. I'm trying to get a Wonerland No More meele going on so I need some help here.

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#32 Postby SlasherEpoch » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:46 am

kingofsouls wrote:I've been using your formulas to calculate the cost of a bear to see if it works. I got 78 for the raw value when the Troop builder says the raw cost is 83. I done goofed but I don't know where. I'm trying to get a Wonerland No More meele going on so I need some help here.


Can you PM me the stats you're using to convert so I can see if there's an error in my formulae?

Appreciate it.

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#33 Postby kingofsouls » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:47 am

Okay! One second.

Wait! I think I figured it out! BEars have a fighitng of d8, but since thier GUYS skill is higher, the Fighting skill is secondary and has to be halfed. When I did that....i got 82.5. bingo

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#34 Postby bigbywolfe » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:13 pm

So, I tried to use your cheat sheet to build the Human Swordsmen from the spreadsheet and I cannot get the values to come out correct. I'll break down what I got in case I'm just an idiot and missing something.

Agility and Smarts are both d6 for 2 points each (4)
Spirit and Strength are both d6 for 4 points each (8)
Vigor is d6 for 6 points (6)
Pace is 6 for 0 points
Fighting is d6 for [(6/2)-1]x3 = 6 (6)
1st Weapon is 9 points (9)
Armor is 2 points at 5 points each (10)
(despite armor being listed as 1 point apiece for some unfathomable reason)

4+8+6+6+9+10= 43
The spreadsheet lists the Raw Cost as only 39, and this is one of the most simple characters in the spreadsheet.
Is the spreadsheet wrong (how could we tell since they refuse to release char-gen rules on this game?)? Is your formula wrong? Or am I really this bad at math? What is not adding up?

Thanks

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Lord Inar
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#35 Postby Lord Inar » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:16 pm

How did you get 9 for the first weapon?
I got 6.

[Edit: I got 6 because at Str d6, the weapon does a max damage of d6]

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#36 Postby bigbywolfe » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:35 pm

Lord Inar wrote:How did you get 9 for the first weapon?
I got 6.

[Edit: I got 6 because at Str d6, the weapon does a max damage of d6]


I was assuming a Long Sword. My bad, thanks for the correction. That still makes the total 40, not the 39 that the spreadsheet indicates. So am I missing something somewhere else?

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#37 Postby bigbywolfe » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:53 pm

I just double checked and the Spreadsheet itself lists the first weapon cost as 9, so that's why I assumed it was the long sword that worked out to 9 points. So if the first weapon is 9, then the cheat sheet is still wrong, and if the first weapon is 6 then the spreadsheet itself is wrong.

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#38 Postby bigbywolfe » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:24 pm

So, our GM is deconstructing the spreadsheet and it seems it just blatantly breaks the rules in several places. Namely, it does not include a regular Bow and the Long Bow has a d8 Strength Minimum yet is used by d6 Strength characters (like the Elven Archers) and the Human Swordsmen have Long Swords even though they can not effectively use them.

I still can't account for why the Swordsmen costs 39 points in the spreadsheet and 43 if you actually do the math according to the cheat sheet.

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#39 Postby WildDude » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:20 pm

I'm building a troop builder for Showdown, it will be live on the Web soon if you're interested.

Image

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#40 Postby WildDude » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:14 pm

Here is v0.1 of my Showdown Troop Builder

http://retroredge.github.io/showdown-troop-builder/


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