Playing the Horses

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Thunderforge
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#21 Postby Thunderforge » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:37 pm

I don't think I would let a horse advance simply because there's not much for them to do. They only need two skills (no horses using Investigation here!), the attributes would be ridiculously high if they were allowed to advance, and there really aren't any other edges that they could benefit from. No, I think they're best staying at the level they are.

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#22 Postby Malcolm Wolter » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:19 pm

While they don't have as many skills as proper characters they could have some: Jumping, Fighting, Endurance Running, Racing, Guts, Dressage, etc. They have even more Edges—I can come up with a dozen pretty easily—and as many Hindrances. But the question is should they be able to improve them—is that meaningful? Obviously, I'm all for specialized steeds and having variation between types of mounts—largely as a story telling opportunity. But advancements is another thing altogether. Still pondering....


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GreenTongue
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#23 Postby GreenTongue » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:38 pm

Maybe they could gain an additional edge but, it would have to be part of play. So, maybe the owner could "donate" an edge?
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#24 Postby SlasherEpoch » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:55 pm

I allow advancement in my games if it's part of a character's schtick. If they have a loyal hawk or pet rat, then you can bet I'll allow that thing to level up. Same with a horse.

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#25 Postby VonDan » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:38 pm

Now I can use the Destrier stats to RPG my grandfather. He ran away from home at 17 (in 1917) with $12 and a Clydesdale (and he was ridding the horse so the makers of Krull are full of $hit when they say no one rode a clyde for 500 years until they filmed Krull)

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Lord Inar
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#26 Postby Lord Inar » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:43 pm

I think Pirates handles this pretty well.

Ships have edges and hindrances, and the player can use one of their leveling opportunities to give it an edge.

While I think this is too much to ask (unless the horse is a WC), you could use 1/2 a bump (equivalent to a skill point raise) to give a horse an edge.

Just a thought.

Then again, an even better thought is to hammer it out here and submit it to the soon to be up and running again Shark Bytes!

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#27 Postby Malcolm Wolter » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:03 pm

VonDan, I'm honored that you used your 666th post in my little thread. Great story, too! Your posts are always a hoot. BUT, I've learned during my research that Clydesdales weren't really destriers apparently—they were draft horses that came much later after the Age of Chivalry. Too broad of back to ride comfortably!

Lord Inar, I like the idea of players using their own advancements on their steeds. Good one. That would mean it would only happen if it was really important to the PC. I'll try to advance this more ASAP. My newborn daughter is demanding lots of my time in the evenings so it's not going as quickly as I'd like. But I'll try to make a major post on it this weekend, if not sooner. I have new types and further evolved thinking on Traits and Skills thanks to you all. Trying to find the right FFF balance, because I tend to be a bit pedantic when it comes to these things...

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#28 Postby Lord Lance » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:56 am

shadd4d wrote:Could you explain the "pay" your extras with an edge? Is that to get the extras or how they advance?

Don

You shouldn't give "free" Extras to your players, and let them "play" with them, and Advance them. (at least, this is my point of view, trying to stick with the rules...)

If they want an Herd of chartacters to manage, and to play with, they have to "pay" them: please, read carefully the Legendary edge "Followers".

Of course, if you want to give 'em a "Guard Captain" that stick with the party for just 1 adventure, as NPC, here you don't need rules or edges, however, I think he can't advance, or you - as Master - should act the Captain, even in combats.

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#29 Postby Clint » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:03 am

Lord Lance wrote:You shouldn't give "free" Extras to your players, and let them "play" with them, and Advance them. (at least, this is my point of view, trying to stick with the rules...)

If they want an Herd of chartacters to manage, and to play with, they have to "pay" them: please, read carefully the Legendary edge "Followers".


Good advice. ;)

Nothing in that Edge or anywhere in the book states that is the only way to have allied Extras. What the Followers Edge provides is absolutely loyal Extras.

As it states in the section on Allies, they could equally be hirelings, retainers, or fellow grunts. The rules are designed to allow for allied Extras at any point in play. After all, it wouldn't make much sense for allied Extras to only be allowed at Legendary but have Leadership Edges that benefit them available as early as Novice Rank.
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#30 Postby Cutter XXIII » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:45 pm

Malcolm Wolter -- please check your Private Messages. Thanks! :)
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#31 Postby Lord Skudley » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:08 pm

A player in my DLR game wants a "Smart Horse". Which brought me back to this thread.
Have you done anymore work on this?
How would someone handle the "Smart" Horse, "Strong" Horse etc?

Are your prices based on modern costs?
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#32 Postby Malcolm Wolter » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:39 pm

Thanks for asking! I've done a lot more work on it, but it's not really ready for public consumption. I basically developed a system for horses akin to the ship-building system in Pirates of the Spanish Main—descriptions and base cost for each medieval horse type then modified for Edges and Hindrances. But it's not quite there yet and I haven't worked on it lately due to other writing priorities. But basically, I would handle this as an Edge. A horse with the Tricks Edge could learn up to 1d6 tricks. They have to be something a horse can actually do, eg. come when called, count to ten by stamping his foot, walk on his hind legs, etc. I'd love to finish it someday, but don't have a schedule for completion.

Best,


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#33 Postby Lord Skudley » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:06 am

Exceptional Horses
These horses display an exceptional trait of some sort. Whether it’s smarter, bigger, or just plain better these horses cost double the standard price.
Brave: This horse stands fast even in the face of extreme danger. The animal has a Spirit of d8 and either True Grit or Nerves of Steel.
Fast: Too bad the Pony Express didn’t get a hold of this animal. Add a +2 to the horse’s Pace and a +2 to his running die.
Smart: The animal responds exceptionally well to its master’s commands. The horse gains one of the following edges; Alertness or Danger Sense. Or the horse’s owner can add +2 to her ridin’ rolls.
Strong: Strap this horse to a plow and he’ll make any farmer proud. Huge and burly, the horse the edge Brawny.
Surly: The horse is ill-tempered to those he isn’t used to. He kicks and bites strangers with little provocation.
Tough: The horse is made of tougher stuff than normal, increase its Vigor by one die type and gains Tough as Nails.
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#34 Postby Snate56 » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:29 am

I'm surprised no one's brought up the Animal Companions chapter in Deadlands Classic's Rascals, Varmints and Critters.
There's all kinds of things for a horse to spend advancements on (dogs too!).
Filching, Dodge, Fighting, Stealth, Notice, Performing Tricks, Guts.
And a passel of Edges, too: Brave, Swift (some horses are even faster than Fleet-Footed), Saddlewise, etc.

Looks like pretty much all the skills, hindrances and edges can be brought over to Savage Worlds.



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#35 Postby Lord Skudley » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:45 am

Snate56 wrote:I'm surprised no one's brought up the Animal Companions chapter in Deadlands Classic's Rascals, Varmints and Critters.


You're right. I'm gonna pull that one out!
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#36 Postby Lord Skudley » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:24 am

Thought I'd try to revive this 'un...
By the way, here are the prices fer a Deadlands game:

Horse, War (Destrier, or "Great Horse") Cost: $775 or more
Horse, War (Courser) Cost: $550
Horse, War (Rounsey) Cost: $400
Horse, Riding (Palfrey) Cost: $300
Horse, Riding (Jennet) Cost: $200
Horse, Riding (Hackney) Cost: $150
Horse, Work (Farm, Pack or Driving) Cost: $100
Horse, Pony (Riding, Pack, or Driving) Cost: $75
Nag Cost: $50 or less
Mule Cost $50
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#37 Postby Lord Karick » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:47 am

While we're at it, it'd be nice to have some more attractive rules for combat from horse. At the moment there's no real advantage to doing so, whereas IRL cavalry had some real advantages over foot soldiers.
(nice work btw).

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#38 Postby jpk » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:19 am

Lord Karick wrote:While we're at it, it'd be nice to have some more attractive rules for combat from horse. At the moment there's no real advantage to doing so, whereas IRL cavalry had some real advantages over foot soldiers.
(nice work btw).

Really?

If you charge, you get +4 to damage for having moved 6" in a more or less straight line toward your enemy. If you Wild Attack, that's +2 to hit and +6 damage. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to Shake most things at that point and continue riding past. If you do all that with a spear, you don't have to give a rat's rump if you manage to shake them.

Of course, if you do all that with a Trademark Weapon, you can make the Wild Attack to the head for an overall -1 to hit and +10 damage! That was how I discovered that velociraptors come with zip tabs that barely keep their heads attached...

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Lord Karick
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#39 Postby Lord Karick » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:28 am

jpk wrote:Really?

Really. Most of the advantages that you list are non-mount related. You get a charge. Good. But then? There doesn't seem to be much advantage given by the rules as they stand to the higher position etc. given by sitting in the saddle.

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#40 Postby Calden » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:23 am

Well you would be getting +1 to Fighting rolls due to outnumbering at least surely?


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