Slipstream Rocket combat

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Froggy the Great
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#21 Postby Froggy the Great » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:26 am

The biggest problem my group has is that in reducing a rocketship down to being treated as a character, it leaves a few players sitting idle during rocketship combats.

Basically, my group found it to be not as exciting as a chase per the SW rules, constraining, and liked the old way better.
I'm still working on getting detailed feedback to e-mail you.

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#22 Postby Pfr_Fate » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:05 pm

Froggy the Great wrote:The biggest problem my group has is that in reducing a rocketship down to being treated as a character, it leaves a few players sitting idle during rocketship combats..


Absolutely the opposite of what I was going for!
Slipstream presents several crew positions (Pilot, Radiophone Operator, Engineer and Gunner - plus the occasional Salvagers on a Robot Man ship). By standard rules, any characters on board can assume these roles. There are usually mutiple Gunners. Engineers make Emergency Repairs. The Pilot makes the manuevers.
To this, 'Rocket Ranger' rules adds the Radiophone Operator 'manuevers', different options for the Engineer and Pilot to consider, the 'Short' in the system Critical to allow for other players trying to fix things on the fly (Thanks Thasmodius!) and making Cooperative Rolls when allowed. All players make their own die rolls based upon their skills, using the generic 'Crew rating' for Extras. All players can share in the debate over which tactics to try out for the turn.
It also attempts to reduce the shift in focus from characters to ships by simplifying the time required for movement (no inches and turn key).
I may have missed an important factor of the existing rules!
I am looking for to the details....how many players you had and how each stayed involved during the chase rules? Did you give each player (not character) a ship to manage?

Thanks for input - good and bad, it always improves! (And old Froggy has been helping from the start!)

-Mike
The eternal struggle takes time, Max.

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#23 Postby Spence » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:53 pm

OK so I had to read it... It looks good.

I had a question. Have you given thought to making the outer ring have eight zones instead of four with the mod being -2 per zone rather than -2 per thin line and -4 per thick? This would allow closer combat at the edges while maintaining a cumulative -4 for greater distances. Just a thought.

And you have sparked an idea for a mod to 'Chase Combat'.

So many ideas...so little time....

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#24 Postby Pfr_Fate » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:32 am

That seems like a simplification that could work! I'll look into the background math, but by expanding the battle-map, it would eliminate a few rules complexities...

Thanks and be back to you on this!

Mike
The eternal struggle takes time, Max.

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#25 Postby Pfr_Fate » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:14 pm

The math looks good. I will re-draw the Radiophone and see if it looks OK....
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#26 Postby plugger » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:03 pm

Goodaye,

Hey, this is good!

I like the simplicity and ease of use of the radiophone. Also like the fact that it stills allows for some tactical maneouvres.

Cheers,
Plugger

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#27 Postby Spence » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:11 pm

Pfr_Fate wrote:The math looks good. I will re-draw the Radiophone and see if it looks OK....


Looking forward to seeing it...

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#28 Postby Pfr_Fate » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:04 am

OK!

The Radiophone has been changed, which made the movement and range rules ALOT easier....almost 'ages 5+' simple.

Thanks goes to Spence!!! He keeps those rockets flying!

The new link to the re-simplified rules (complete with basic Radiophone display) is:

http://www.mediafire.com/?wygyzhkehld

-Mike
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#29 Postby Bill » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:32 am

Nice Pfr_Fate!

I have not had a chance to look in depth at these yet (the idea of players donating xp for ship "resources" and advancement is a good one!) however I would hesitate on posting the details of the ships and edges from a setting on line. It violates the copywrite protection of the owners and forces them to act like cops. You are allowed to reference the stuff by name with a page reference without harm. Anything you change or add is perfectly OK (the radio-phone is very nice retro look by the way!).
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#30 Postby Bill » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:41 am

For editing suggestions:

Weapons Table pg4 and 8: change the damage (if identical to what is in the book) to "Per Book" or give the page number of the weapon gear.

Remove page 6. These look to be the same stats as in the book without the speed. Better would be to list the ship name, page location and the speed acording to your rules (20" = base speed of +0, 40" = +1?) or something like that.

Other than that the posting should be fine.
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#31 Postby Pfr_Fate » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:51 am

Bill: I am going to have to think on that.

The weapon damage ratings and ship stats were included for ease of use (one location on one piece of paper). I suppose that is a clear copy of Slipstream, but I felt that I counter-balanced by purposefully not restating a number of Slipstream and SW rules.

There are several instances in RR that do not give complete rules (such as the definition of 'wrecked' (page 2), Cooperative rolls (page 2), Emergency Repair (page 3), Outside the ship Action (page 3), KO/Poison Dust (page 4), some Edges and Hindrances (page 7), and I provided no details on how to make characters to use the skills or on any of the SW stuff like eploding dice, Raises, etc.

With all that, I felt the overall copyright question of "Is it fully playable without Slipstream?" then the answer is "No, it is not...Slipstream is required."

But, to be sure, i should add the SW Fan Licensing stuff from Pinnacle. I was waiting for 'play-testing' to end, but I believe you are right on this.

I'll re-up it soon. I'd like to hear from Clint or PEG on the other stuff (tables and ship stats) if I am wrong on that.

Thanks!
The eternal struggle takes time, Max.

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#32 Postby Pfr_Fate » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:29 am

Updated.....

Still kept the ship stats and damages. I'll remove them if PEG so desires...I still might change it to "See Slipstream" anyway....have to think.

Added the 'Savage Fan' logo and other copyright materials.
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#33 Postby skylion » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:24 pm

I get an error message in trying to get to the angelfire link.
Image

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#34 Postby Pfr_Fate » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:06 pm

Sorry...try this new one:
http://www.mediafire.com/?nwemm3elznn
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#35 Postby drake113 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:12 am

((Oops... Nevermind.))
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#36 Postby Bill » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:57 pm

Looks very nice! I noticed you were using the - sign as a bullet. When you placed them next to modifiers my first thought was you were reversing the modifiers (- a -4 = +4!). I was wondering if you wanted to change those to true bullets to avoid confusion among the sign challenged (like I was at first)?

You were awfully kind with the swivel gun modifiers versus the nose guns. The swivel guns generally ran 50% of the range of the nose guns and only the really short range weapons increment was 20. Still, I think you captured the purpose and general relationship of the weapons so it should work fine!

Wow. Sounds like I'm being really picky. This is a really nice and flavorful option for rocketship combat and I am impressed at your effort!
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#37 Postby Pfr_Fate » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:57 am

Thanks for your kind words. Effort is halved when it's fun!

As to the Swivel Guns, remember the Nose Guns get a better 'Accuracy' which accounts for ranges...a '+2' means a lot in Savage Worlds (equal almost to whole Die Type better).

using the '-' as a bullet: Wow! Good call!

Ya' see, folks, that is the essence of editing and play-testing! I had a habit of using a punctuation mark as a 'bullet-point' (because that's how we did it on typewriters!) and it can be much more clear with computers. But a habit is a habit and you need someone else to point it out. I'll look that one over in a few!

Thanks!
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#38 Postby Yig » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:18 pm

So can a single character perform more then one tactic for the same skill during his turn? (Pilot "Weaving" and aiming the "Nose gun" or an engineer doing a "Full Burn" and "Damage Control")

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#39 Postby Pfr_Fate » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:51 pm

Yes.

The key is Multiple Action penalties.

Initially, i thought of having each character keep track of seperate tasks. Then, i had the Generic 'Crew' to keep track of... It seemed simpler to have the whole ship affected by the total number of actions by all characters.

But did that make sense? Well, I figured that, since they are all on the same ship, their actions kind of 'bump' into each other. In your example, Weaving would definately confuse the attempts at damage control, fine-tuning the engines and aiming. But that one is easy. Could the others affect each other without Weaving? Sure! Crew running around, engines sputtering into a full blast, the pilot jink a little here and there to line up his shot? Yep. Multiple Action Penatlies.


So, in your example, the Pilot would make two Pilot rolls, each at -6: one for the Nose Gun and one for the Defense. The Engineer makes two rolls on Repair at -6 each for added toughness and +1 Move. Any or all can fail or suceed individually.

If one (or both) of them had 'One Man Crew' Edge, they could lower the MAP for their rolls. It's a great Edge!

Ooops! Typo! Improved One Man Edge lowers two MAPs not just one!

And a side note: Full Speed and Fight Fire do not have rolls, but do add Multiple Action penalties for their use.
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#40 Postby Yig » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:55 pm

I definitely like what you did here. I'm only 2 sessions deep into my Slipstream campaign and they have had a couple rocketship chases but no dogfighting. This is a pretty groovy tactical alternative and gives the players something to do. Good work.


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