How high is your Barrier?

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TheLoremaster
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How high is your Barrier?

#1 Postby TheLoremaster » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:52 am

Something I just realized: there's no guidelines on how high a Barrier spell should be. The Power states that it's 1" long and as wide as trappings indicate, but no indication about height. This can be important for games where Large characters appear, or in games where flying PCs or NPCs are common (like Slipstream).

So how high do you think Barrier should be? I'm thinking about it as a 1" square area (2 yds./m to a side), but that might underpower it in games with Large or flying creatures. Do you think 2"-3" is too much, or is it better addressed by Trappings?
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Re: How high is your Barrier?

#2 Postby Clint » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:20 am

TheLoremaster wrote:So how high do you think Barrier should be? I'm thinking about it as a 1" square area (2 yds./m to a side), but that might underpower it in games with Large or flying creatures.


Go 1" high. Remember each section of the barrier must be in contact with another section, but nothing says they all have to be in contact with the ground.

So if a caster wants a 2" high barrier, it's simply two sections stacked (for 2 PPs). That way it costs extra to make a higher barrier to work against a larger opponent, which makes sense to me.

Against flying opponents, they could do something similar except instead of just stacking one section on top of another have it come off at a 90 degree angle (or such depending on the trapping), giving the barrier a "roof."

Heck, a caster with barrier could put someone in a box if they wanted. 4 sections to surround them and one on top to close it off.
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#3 Postby skylion » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:31 am

A BOX!

Thanks, Clint, I have a new way to mess with my players this Sunday.
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Re: How high is your Barrier?

#4 Postby Jordan Peacock » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:44 am

Clint wrote:Heck, a caster with barrier could put someone in a box if they wanted. 4 sections to surround them and one on top to close it off.


Actually, that's similar to something I quoted to a player who was shopping for new Powers to fit his "ice" theme, for Barrier: If he wanted to create an instant "ice dome," then I'd let him make one (just big enough to enclose the space for one character) for 5 sections. I'd assume, as part of the trappings of the spell, that a few corners would be cut, to make a nice round dome, rather than a box or cluster of hastily-stacked cubes. :) (And for a sphere, it'd be 6 sections, continuing the progression.)
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#5 Postby jpk » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:08 pm

As a recovering math major, I calculate the needed number of barrier sections while I'm waiting on my three of clubs to come up in the initiative rotation. I mean, except when I'm waiting on my five of clubs...

Spheres, pyramids, boxes, and cylinders are all pretty easy if you were scarred by your high school geometry teacher.

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Re: How high is your Barrier?

#6 Postby razorwise » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:44 pm

Clint wrote:
TheLoremaster wrote:So how high do you think Barrier should be? I'm thinking about it as a 1" square area (2 yds./m to a side), but that might underpower it in games with Large or flying creatures.


Go 1" high. Remember each section of the barrier must be in contact with another section, but nothing says they all have to be in contact with the ground.

So if a caster wants a 2" high barrier, it's simply two sections stacked (for 2 PPs). That way it costs extra to make a higher barrier to work against a larger opponent, which makes sense to me.

Against flying opponents, they could do something similar except instead of just stacking one section on top of another have it come off at a 90 degree angle (or such depending on the trapping), giving the barrier a "roof."

Heck, a caster with barrier could put someone in a box if they wanted. 4 sections to surround them and one on top to close it off.


Hiya Clint,

What a timely, well thought out response! It's almost as though you've contemplated this power as of late. ;)

Regards,

Sean

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Re: How high is your Barrier?

#7 Postby Clint » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:10 pm

razorwise wrote:What a timely, well thought out response! It's almost as though you've contemplated this power as of late. ;)


Why, yes...

I am in fact looking at a new campaign at the first of the year, and I have been looking at the power system quite extensively. Quite extensively. :arrow:

[Though I know what you meant. :razz: ] ;)
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Re: How high is your Barrier?

#8 Postby AFDia » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:05 pm

Clint wrote:
TheLoremaster wrote:So how high do you think Barrier should be? I'm thinking about it as a 1" square area (2 yds./m to a side), but that might underpower it in games with Large or flying creatures.


Go 1" high. Remember each section of the barrier must be in contact with another section, but nothing says they all have to be in contact with the ground.

So if a caster wants a 2" high barrier, it's simply two sections stacked (for 2 PPs). That way it costs extra to make a higher barrier to work against a larger opponent, which makes sense to me.

Against flying opponents, they could do something similar except instead of just stacking one section on top of another have it come off at a 90 degree angle (or such depending on the trapping), giving the barrier a "roof."

Heck, a caster with barrier could put someone in a box if they wanted. 4 sections to surround them and one on top to close it off.


That means I can create a flagstone above my enemy and crush him with it? :D

Sounds like Barrier is much more flexible than I've thought. :)

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Re: How high is your Barrier?

#9 Postby Clint » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:11 pm

AFDia wrote:That means I can create a flagstone above my enemy and crush him with it? :D


I didn't say it didn't have to be attached to something. :lol:

Though... that could be a possible trapping; the GM would just have to compensate for that (kind of like a fire barrier being immaterial but doing damage to anyone that passes through it).
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Re: How high is your Barrier?

#10 Postby AFDia » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:35 pm

Clint wrote:
AFDia wrote:That means I can create a flagstone above my enemy and crush him with it? :D


I didn't say it didn't have to be attached to something. :lol:

Though... that could be a possible trapping; the GM would just have to compensate for that (kind of like a fire barrier being immaterial but doing damage to anyone that passes through it).


What about "The barrier cannot be attached to anything" as a restriction? ;) So he can only make barriers which are tilting in any direction after pushing it.

But how much damage would such a falling or tilting barrier do? I would say the damage should be pretty high (hey it's a stone wall :D ) but the targets get Agility rolls to jump away.

It reminds me of the dnd spell with the iron wall which drops to one side and buries anyone under it. :D

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#11 Postby Tuesday » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:16 pm

Why would you spend 5 sections to make a cube to trap your opponent when you could use 3 slanting ones to make a tetrahedron?

Or, if slants aren't allowed, 4 sections - a triangle on the ground and a roof.

(Just saving PP)

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#12 Postby TheLoremaster » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:30 pm

Tuesday wrote:Why would you spend 5 sections to make a cube to trap your opponent when you could use 3 slanting ones to make a tetrahedron?

Or, if slants aren't allowed, 4 sections - a triangle on the ground and a roof.

(Just saving PP)

Boy, you must not be from around here ... you with your fancy book-larnin' ... ;)

I'm thinking that the width and height of a Barrier should be related to its Trappings as well. A stone Barrier needs to be thick to stand erect, so it defaults to only 2 yds. high, while a fire Barrier doesn't, so it can be 6 yds. high, but only a few inches thick.

Or does that over complicate matters? Hrmmm...
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#13 Postby Tuesday » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:22 pm

"overcomplication" is a nonissue, unless you're allowing variable trappings for your PC on the fly. A different height or depth or weight or whatever is only a single trapping, defined when the PC takes the initial power or the New Power Edge.

The trick is to give a single, defined effect to a single, defined case of the power, or, if the power has variable trappings, to define the limits.

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Re: How high is your Barrier?

#14 Postby GoLu » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:52 am

AFDia wrote:What about "The barrier cannot be attached to anything" as a restriction? ;) So he can only make barriers which are tilting in any direction after pushing it.

But how much damage would such a falling or tilting barrier do? I would say the damage should be pretty high (hey it's a stone wall :D ) but the targets get Agility rolls to jump away.


Makes sense to me. Let's say 2d10 damage, but rather than a 4, you need to beat the target's Agility roll.

...although at this point, it's now a trapping for the burst power, rather than the barrier power.

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Re: How high is your Barrier?

#15 Postby Clint » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:00 pm

AFDia wrote:But how much damage would such a falling or tilting barrier do? I would say the damage should be pretty high (hey it's a stone wall :D )...


Yeah, but it's a stone wall that is an inch or two thick. It'd be like being hit with sheetrock. ;)

Okay, maybe a little more than that, but I think a pretty good reference is already there in the damage listed for a fiery wall.
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#16 Postby AFDia » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:21 am

After thinking about it, the spell would indeed work better as a trapping for Burst or Blast. ;)

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Re: How high is your Barrier?

#17 Postby Sadric » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:48 am

Clint wrote:
Heck, a caster with barrier could put someone in a box if they wanted. 4 sections to surround them and one on top to close it off.


Leumund's secure shelter....?

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#18 Postby jpk » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:58 am

My current wizard has used barrier to box himself into safety at least as often as he's used it to slow down others.

With the Wizard Edge, it can be pretty hand to advance and, looky-there, full cover!

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#19 Postby Clint » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:43 pm

AFDia wrote:After thinking about it, the spell would indeed work better as a trapping for Burst or Blast. ;)


That is so going to be the trappings for some powers at some point in the future!

"Let's see your barrier face my awesome whirling blades of fury!!!" <Zzzz-chink-chink-chink>

"Let's see your face look up at my unassuming stone slab." <poink-plummet-Splat!>

"And once more, rock beats scissors."
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#20 Postby AFDia » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:03 pm

Clint wrote:
AFDia wrote:After thinking about it, the spell would indeed work better as a trapping for Burst or Blast. ;)


That is so going to be the trappings for some powers at some point in the future!

"Let's see your barrier face my awesome whirling blades of fury!!!" <Zzzz-chink-chink-chink>

"Let's see your face look up at my unassuming stone slab." <poink-plummet-Splat!>

"And once more, rock beats scissors."


Very nice! :lol:

Assuming the spell is a variation of Blast, I would bump up the damage to 2d8/3d8 instead of 2d6/3d6 and let the victims make an Agility (TN 4) roll to jump away.
I would call it "stone slab" or just "the extra killer" (cause they don't have a wild die to raise the chance to jump away) :D ;)


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