If an enemy cries

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If a WC enemy cries, what do you do?

Give him aid
8
5%
Give him aid
8
5%
Give him aid
8
5%
Give him aid
8
5%
walk away and let him cry
8
5%
walk away and let him cry
8
5%
walk away and let him cry
8
5%
walk away and let him cry
8
5%
take advantage of his moment of weakness
19
12%
take advantage of his moment of weakness
19
12%
take advantage of his moment of weakness
19
12%
take advantage of his moment of weakness
19
12%
feel sorry for him and let him take advantage of [b]YOU[/b]
3
2%
feel sorry for him and let him take advantage of [b]YOU[/b]
3
2%
feel sorry for him and let him take advantage of [b]YOU[/b]
3
2%
feel sorry for him and let him take advantage of [b]YOU[/b]
3
2%
feel sorry for him and let him take advantage of [b]YOU[/b]
3
2%
 
Total votes: 155

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shadd4d
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If an enemy cries

#1 Postby shadd4d » Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:16 am

Just wondering, if I play a villian smart, can I trick players and take advantage of their heroism?

Don
Don

"But there is a difference between fear and horror. An important difference.
Fear is when you worry about what might be.
Horror is when you are certain." Dannyboy01

screenmonkey
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Re: If an enemy cries

#2 Postby screenmonkey » Sun Dec 28, 2003 9:47 am

shadd4d wrote:Just wondering, if I play a villian smart, can I trick players and take advantage of their heroism?


Yes, but you risk the players becoming unheroic if you do this too much, especially without the villian having an in character reason for such deviousness.

It makes for a more interesting roleplaying scene when you take advantage, and often is a spur of the moment opportunity, so go for it i say.

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#3 Postby HellBane » Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:17 pm

Muhahahaha!!!
If his back is turned, I gladly fill it with lead.

Seriously, does nobody here pity a soul gone sour? The poll suggests that we all are very close to Servitor status. Oh well.

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#4 Postby bighara » Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:20 pm

I didn't vote because my answer would be dependent upon what kind of character I was playing. One with the Heroic hindrance might be inclined towards mercy, but another may hold to a "Never leave a live enemy behind you" philosophy.
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#5 Postby HellBane » Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:57 pm

Aw, who changed their votes? Now It says that people out there actually have pity.

Shad4d, did you change It?

J/K I'm glad to see some people with hearts play RPG's.

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#6 Postby Paulewauge » Sun Dec 28, 2003 4:12 pm

Like bighara, I have not voted yet.

For me it would also depend on the character I was playing and maybe if I could ascertain their true motivations.

But as a player I would meet any event with skepticism and suspicion.

If I were playing a SW PC with the Pacifist hindrance I would be on guard but would probably try to treat them as if they were sincere and see if we could all have a nice 'warm fuzzy moment' (gag) where they could share their feelings and display remorse.
But if they were Not a pacifist then I would probably try to subdue them and tie them up. Esp. Since remorse or no they are a Villain and must have some 'crimes' to answer for.

If I wear a "seedy" character I'd probably take the chance to finish them off. (Good, Bad, I'm the one with the Gun! ;))

It would also depend of course a lot on That character as well, what have their actions to date shown? How much do we know about them?

"I'd treat them with caution and suspicion." ;)
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#7 Postby Leitchy » Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:28 am

If a WC enemy cries, what do you do?


Shoot it!
Or maybe nuke it from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. :lol:

Seriously, you might get away with it once. But you might not survive to try it a second time.
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#8 Postby RDU Neil » Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:58 am

My problem comes from a GM who thinks like this... "How can I take advantage of my players..."

Who would want to be in a game like that? Role playing is about ROLE playing. Characters do what they would do... not because the GM wants to take advantage of players... but because Dr. Felix, Master of Two-Fisted Science would do that.

Remember, there should be a distinct difference between the characters and the players who play them. If a villain character is trying to set up his enemies (the PCs) that is fine... but if the GM is trying to trick the players themselves, that is just immature crap.

Have a characater act "in character" and stop worrying about forcing players to respond a certain way, or to manipulate players. Just see what happens. If your villain is truly crying and repentant, let him be repentant and see what the heroes do. Since SW isn't likely to be a four color superhero type game, you might have some protagonists who aren't heroes at all, and they gut the guy... others may want to help. The villain should do what he does because it would be natural for the villain to do so, not because the GM thinks "this would be a fun trick to pull on my players."

As a GM, I just disagree with any kind of plan where you are trying to set up the players. Then the game just becomes a vehicle for "me vs. them" and you could be playing cards for all it matters. Role playing is cooperative and interactive. It is about letting stories unfold in a manner consistent and believable way. Planning something in order to trick... not the characters, but the PLAYERS... is just asking for a game to degenerate into rule arguments, distrust, and bickering.

It only takes a villain pulling a "SUCKER!" move once, and you'll never have the PCs trust again. If your world is a dog-eat-dog, show-no-mercy kind of world... well, they need to learn this. If it is a more civilized world, and you make them distrust everyone... then later punish them because now they won't work within the laws or society of your world... hey, don't say I didn't warn you.

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#9 Postby DerFinsterling » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:58 am

Neil, I agree. But, there are some players who play always the same character - even if it says something different on their sheet. (I had a guy play a bard once - with a doublebladed battle axe and a higher strength rating than his charisma. Oh, well.)
And it's fun (for everyone, in my experience) to deal with them accordingly. Example:
We were playing Cyberpunk, the characters got a mission that was about infiltrating a corporate building. One of the players was plaing a rather trigger-happy character (not the character was trigger-happy per se, he played all his cyberpunk characters that way. Could have been a stoned peacenik and he still would have shot everyone who came near his dope.)
They came up with a decent plan and went on to carry it out. It all depended on that player, who was entering the building from the front entrance, as a maintenance worker.
The guard in the lobby asked him about his business and where the usual guy was, the player gives the usual response ("Ramon is sick, so they sent me...") and then the guard was checking the id-card.
It was a genuine card, not a fake and there would have been no problem in getting in - I just described how the guard was looking at him, checking the card, when he broke down, pulled out his gun and started shooting.
And he always, always fell for this. No other players ever fell for it when I tried to pull the same stunt on them. Usually the night ended with the player slapping his own forehead because I got him again 8)

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Ans: Why I asked this question

#10 Postby shadd4d » Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:09 am

RDU Neil and DerFinsterling, I really hadn't considered those aspects.
*******Spoilers.




This idea came to me while watching the simpsons (Bart saves Mr. Burns episode) and what someone had written about 50 Fathoms and the 1st plot point. My idea was, in theory, that Donga ends up taking on the party and well, someone gets a lucky blow in and he gets injured. Now Donga is not stupid, plus he ain't felt pain in a while. So he goes off and whimpers, which attracts the party. Cue in the image of the sheppard/unlikely hero pulling the thorn out of the lion's paw. Now, I could run it two ways from there. Play through the players comforting Donga and getting blindsided, which is only a thought that goes through their collective heads as they ponder what to do. Then run through an alternative, in which they run and Donga chases. This opens up a real quandary for the players, which is the original aim. So, although a great idea in conception, it seems like it would fall on its face, based on your comments. Tears for repentance might actually be a good step, if the storyline involves proving to a villian how his actions are wrong and how he can be a hero (save that idea for NE). But maybe cry wasn't the best word. After all, how do EN heroes deal with whimpering dire wolves? I was just kicking around an idea and thanks for your thoughts, you guys.

Don
Last edited by shadd4d on Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don



"But there is a difference between fear and horror. An important difference.

Fear is when you worry about what might be.

Horror is when you are certain." Dannyboy01

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#11 Postby MojaveRattler » Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Spoilers Shadd4d, i had to stop reading your post as soon as i got to 1st plot point because i knew something was coming.

Anyway if an enemy cries, i'd give the little tyke back his candy and pat him on the head.

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#12 Postby Wendigo1870 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:50 am

Suddenly reviving this very old thread:

Has anyone actually done such a thing; a crying WC villain fooling the PC's? What were the reactions of the players after that?
And, ...
Has anyone seriously done this, without trying to 'trick players', but actually having the WC villain cry out for help or mercy, without trickery? What was the result?

(One incident, in our 7th Sea campaign, involved a (possible) Villain with possibly Porté sorcery ('teleportation' magic) being restrained by our Vodacce scumbag PC. The Villain says the players have to listen to him, 'cause he can tell a lot about what was going on. Another player tells the Vodacce player not to risk it, he can be gone 'with but a word'. So, the Vodacce slices the Villain's throat.
The GM looked dumbfounded, then just mentioned: "Well, there goes about two pages of useful info!"
To this day I wonder what would've happened if we weren't that paranoïd.)
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#13 Postby JarJarMessiah » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:11 pm

Wouldn't a crying WC be doing a Smarts based trick? I mean it sounds like you could have the WC enemy have the Really Dirty Fighter Edge and get the drop on the PCs.
"I feel I can warm hearts as well as break bones."- Steven Seagal

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#14 Postby Tuesday » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:27 pm

Has anyone seriously done this, without trying to 'trick players', but actually having the WC villain cry out for help or mercy, without trickery? What was the result?


Not a Wild Card since it was before I found Savage Worlds, but yes, I've had villains cry and beg. Sometimes it's even been sincere.

My favourite one, ever, was a goblin. Snot-nosed, big round eyes, 4-feet tall, knobby limbs, green skin and all, bawling like a baby because the PC group's warrior caught him and tied him up and now he was SCARED and....

(He was great. The party decided to keep him because he lived there and could guide them. He really tried, desperately, to lead the party into an ambush, but the rest of the goblins never showed up again. They'd run off and left him. Eventually, the party left and had to decide whether to release him or kill him - the "release him" faction won, and he was last seen screaming defiance at them from a VERY GREAT DISTANCE. I figure he probably went back to the tribe with a grand tale of how he outwitted, surrounded, and captured the entire party on his lonesome, and let them go for the grand ransom of the finely made silver dagger he stole from the wizard.)

And, of course, I've had the black hats surrender and cry for mercy and beg, and then try to stab the heroes in the back, too.

ESPECIALLY in settings like Deadlands, it's a great trick. Depending on how mjuch of a fight you put up, you might look like an idiot and your rep might suffer - but if you're unarmed and on your knees and begging for mercy, they *can't* kill you without getting strung up themselves for murder. It's great.

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#15 Postby JarJarMessiah » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:07 pm

Tuesday wrote:
Has anyone seriously done this, without trying to 'trick players', but actually having the WC villain cry out for help or mercy, without trickery? What was the result?


:oops: never mind
"I feel I can warm hearts as well as break bones."- Steven Seagal

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#16 Postby Pure Evil Model: D » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:08 pm

my group would just laugh.

and then kill him.

and if it was within their power call his soul forth from the dead, and laugh at him some more.

this isn't just a theory. there is precedence for them doing this...

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#17 Postby Tuesday » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:34 pm

my group would just laugh.


And, depending on the setting and the game, wind up docked XP and pursued by the lawful authorities for doing so.

(I tend not to play games where "the enemy begs for mercy: kill him, then laugh" is an appropriate response. It's a consciously chosen style thing; that's more an ANtagonist thing than a PROtagonist one.)

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#18 Postby Pure Evil Model: D » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:49 am

Tuesday wrote:
my group would just laugh.


And, depending on the setting and the game, wind up docked XP and pursued by the lawful authorities for doing so.

(I tend not to play games where "the enemy begs for mercy: kill him, then laugh" is an appropriate response. It's a consciously chosen style thing; that's more an ANtagonist thing than a PROtagonist one.)


it was "Hell on Earth" and the villain was a the sole surviving member of a gang they just tore up. He was going to offer the location of their fuel cache in exchange for his life, and become a sidekick, but they killed him before he could make the offer.


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