Some Pirates of the Spanish Main questions

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daddystabz
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#21 Postby daddystabz » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:15 pm

TY all so much. I'm back to my reading and to my taking notes...I'm at the damage section now and reading as to how that works.

You all have been wonderful!

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#22 Postby daddystabz » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:28 pm

Ok...I've now read all the way up through the ship life and ship combat sections and I have 3 more quick questions.

1) Armor is on ships. It is shown separate of the Toughness ability of the ship. Do we still take the Armor into account when the ship is being hit for damage? For small arms fire and for cannons both?

2) There are ranges listed for each type of Ship Weapon on the table in the Ship Combat section. For each weapon there are ranges listed like: 10/00/40 for instance, which is listed for a 16-pdr cannon. What do these ranges mean exactly? Is the first slash for short range, the second for medium and, the third for long? (I actually think I may have answered this one after taking another quick glance....I think you multiply each of these ranges by 20 to know what the real world range of the cannon would be in short, medium and, long ranges.

3) I'm assuming to hit an opposing ship is simply a Trait Test as normal and not some kind of Opposing roll, with a TN of 4 after taking into account modifiers for range, etc?

Thanks.....and I just want to say that I've been role-playing these games since AD&D second edition and this is the best ruleset I've EVER seen, hands down. The guys at one of my local stores kept hyping the system to me and I was skeptical for quite a while but I got the Pirates of the Spanish Main core rulebook for my birthday and now I'm totally hooked! I went out and bought Deadlands Reloaded and Rippers now too. You all have achieved the best RPG gaming system EVER and I applaud you! :jack:
Last edited by daddystabz on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#23 Postby Clint » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:49 pm

daddystabz wrote:1) Armor is on ships. It is shown separate of the Toughness ability of the ship. Do we still take the Armor into account when the ship is being hit for damage? For small arms fire and for cannons both?


Toughness is always listed as with Armor included first and the amount that Armor adds in parentheses like 16 (2). Where 16 is the total Toughness and 2 points comes from Armor. If a weapon had no AP, it would roll against the 16 value. If it had AP:1, it would negate 1 point of Armor and roll against a 15. And if it had AP:2 or more, it would roll against a 14 Toughness as Armor Piercing can only negate the points that come from Armor.

Small arms fire is typically not going to harm a ship at all. That's what the Heavy Armor ability does for ships. If a weapon does not do Heavy Damage, it can't harm a ship. A musket might take a chip off a ship, but it's not enough to truly "damage" it in game.

daddystabz wrote:2) There are ranges listed for each type of Ship Weapon on the table in the Ship Combat section. For each weapon there are ranges listed like: 10/00/40 for instance, which is listed for a 16-pdr cannon. What do these ranges mean exactly? Is the first slash for short range, the second for medium and, the third for long? (I actually think I may have answered this one after taking another quick glance....I think you multiply each of these ranges by 20 to know what the real world range of the cannon would be in short, medium and, long ranges.


Yes, those are the Short, Medium, and Long range values in inches for table-top ship combat to determine the range penalty when firing. Note that the 16-pdr should read 10/20/40 (the 00 is a typo). I need to add that to the errata; thanks for pointing it out.

And yes, you could multiply by 20 to get the range in yards if needed for descriptive purposes.

daddystabz wrote:3) I'm assuming to hit an opposing ship is simply a Trait Test as normal and not some kind of Opposing roll, with a TN of 4 after taking into account modifiers for range, etc?


Yep, pretty much. Pages 133-134 cover making attacks from a ship. In short, the cannoneer uses the lower of their Shooting and Boating and the most common modifiers (besides range) would be the Unstable Platform penalty and a possible penalty for speed.

daddystabz wrote:Thanks.....and I just want to say that I've been role-playing these games since AD&D second edition and this is the best ruleset I've EVER seen, hands down. The guys at one of my local stores kept hyping the system to me and I was skeptical for quite a while but I got the Pirates of the Spanish Main core rulebook for my birthday and now I'm totally hooked! I went out and bought Deadlands Reloaded and Rippers now too. You all have achieved the best RPG gaming system EVER and I applaud you! :jack:


If it wasn't for the people who play it, we wouldn't be able to make it, so thank you and everyone else for the support! :D
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#24 Postby daddystabz » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:59 pm

You guys really truly are the best. Thanks for the games and the system and thanks for being patient with me as I acclamate myself to this new system out of the old trappings of my d20 past.

The AP answer really helped me a lot and confirmed how I thought Armor Piercing should work. I read that section last night pretty late at night and seemed to think that was how it worked but was planning another re-read of it to make sure I understood. Thanks for confirming this and for clearing up the 00 typo in the 16-pdr range figure on the Ship weapons table.

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#25 Postby Allensh » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:56 pm

d4 wrote:
daddystabz wrote:I think if I am reading the rules correctly that when shooting someone the TN is still a 4 but is modified by things like range, cover, lighting and, if the opposing character is using a Defenseive action. Is this correct?

yes. when using a ranged weapon against someone, the base TN is 4. a character's Parry is only used to defend against melee attacks.


Except when using a ranged weapon larger than a pistol when firing at adjacent foes engaged in melee, when the TN is the target's parry (p. 85, "Ranged Weapons in Close Combat")

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#26 Postby Clint » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:56 am

Allensh wrote:
d4 wrote:
daddystabz wrote:I think if I am reading the rules correctly that when shooting someone the TN is still a 4 but is modified by things like range, cover, lighting and, if the opposing character is using a Defenseive action. Is this correct?

yes. when using a ranged weapon against someone, the base TN is 4. a character's Parry is only used to defend against melee attacks.


Except when using a ranged weapon larger than a pistol when firing at adjacent foes engaged in melee, when the TN is the target's parry (p. 85, "Ranged Weapons in Close Combat")


Actually, that a ranged weapon no larger than a pistol. A character can't fire a ranged weapon larger than a pistol in close combat at all.
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#27 Postby Wiggy » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:20 am

daddystabz wrote:(I actually think I may have answered this one after taking another quick glance....I think you multiply each of these ranges by 20 to know what the real world range of the cannon would be in short, medium and, long ranges.


Yep, page 123. Multiply range in inches by 20 to give real world yards for cannons.

By using that, it's therefore true that every inch of the tabletop is 20 yards for ship combat purposes, just in case someone asks if he can jump between passing ships :)


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#28 Postby daddystabz » Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:50 pm

On pg. 128, under Rules of the Sea in the Navigation section it states:

"For each day of travel, the navigator must make a Knowledge (Navigation) roll or a Boating roll with a -4 penalty, modified as follows."

It then gives the Navigational Modifiers table.

My question is this: When the navigator makes his Knowledge (Navigation) roll is it at -4 as well, just like the Boating roll would have been? Or is the Boating roll at -4 only to simulate if your navigator does not otherwise possess the Knowledge (Navigation) skill?

Thanks!

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#29 Postby BiggerBoat » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:11 pm

This seems like a good thread to ask questions, so I'll intrude if that's okay....

The captain edge negates the unstable platform penalty for cannon fire if the gunners act on the same action as the captain (either by the gunners or the captain going on hold). It's a very cool edge since it allows a player to occasionally yell "FIRE!"

When using the chase system instead of the tabletop rules, I assume this means that the gunners can essentially always negate the unstable platform penalty, since all actions are performed on the captain's initiative?

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#30 Postby Clint » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:52 pm

daddystabz wrote:Or is the Boating roll at -4 only to simulate if your navigator does not otherwise possess the Knowledge (Navigation) skill?


Exactly. Only the Boating roll suffers the -4 penalty.
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#31 Postby Clint » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:56 pm

BiggerBoat wrote:When using the chase system instead of the tabletop rules, I assume this means that the gunners can essentially always negate the unstable platform penalty, since all actions are performed on the captain's initiative?


Yep, you're dead on.
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#32 Postby daddystabz » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:49 pm

Question about Aces and Raises I just thought of:

I am rolling an attack and I roll my Fighting attack at 1d8. I get a result of 8 on my first roll (the highest result between my Fighting die and my Wild die). This is an Ace so I roll the dice again and I get another 8(highest result between the 2 dice again). I roll yet again and this time my highest roll is a 2. Added together, this is a result of 18 and let's say my opponent's Parry was 6. So I technically Aced two times and scored 3 Raises on my result over the TN of 4. So I would then be able to add 2d6 to my damage roll as a result of my getting 2 Raises on my result due to the 2 Aces I rolled on my attack?

I ask this question because I'm wondering if a Raise only counts on the initial die roll and not on a subsequent Ace roll. Another words, would I add the results of each Aced roll to my initial roll to determine how many Raises I had?

Thanks in advance!
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#33 Postby d4 » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:07 pm

i'm a little confused by your question; i think you're making it a little more complicated than it really is.

you simply compare your total result (after rolling Aces and all) to the target number.

and actually, i think you scored 3 raises. Parry is 6; so a 10 is one raise (6+4), two raises at 14 (6+8), and three raises at 18 (6+12).

however, you only ever add +1d6 damage for getting any raises -- it's not 1d6 per raise.

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#34 Postby daddystabz » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:23 pm

You interpreted my question correctly.....I was off a bit in my initial math there though...sorry.

However, if you roll 3 raises on your rolls what is the point if only the initial raise counts toward giving you the +1d6 to damage? Are you sure this is the case? If this is the case then it seems the only time having more than one raise on a roll would be good is when going against an opponent's Toughness.

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#35 Postby Clint » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:26 pm

daddystabz wrote:You interpreted my question correctly.....I was off a bit in my initial math there though...sorry.

However, if you roll 3 raises on your rolls what is the point if only the initial raise counts toward giving you the +1d6 to damage? Are you sure this is the case? If this is the case then it seems the only time having more than one raise on a roll would be good is when going against an opponent's Toughness.


The game is designed that way. Other than damage, typically any benefit is going to come from getting a single raise on a roll. So if a person rolls a raise on those rolls, they can stop rolling right there, and the game moves on. Keeps things moving fast.

Also, if a character wants to take advantage of a high skill with an attack, then instead of simply trusting to risk-free benefits from multiple raises, they need to use tactics like making Called Shots which provides benefits but with an accepted risk (potentially missing).

I will go back to one thing you mentioned in your earlier example. You mentioned rerolling both dice because an 8 was rolled on the Fighting die. Just to be clear, you would only reroll both dice if both dice aced.

As it says in page 72, if "a die" rolls the highest number, you get to reroll "that die" again.

Also, the TN for a Fighting attack is the opponent's Parry. This completely replaces the standard TN:4, which is inconsequential in this case.

Just want to be clear on those things.
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#36 Postby daddystabz » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:13 am

Thanks Clint. I misunderstood that when you Ace on your Fighting die in this example that that is the only die that gets rolled again...not the Wild die also. I mentioned in my example that my opponent's Parry was 6 and that would be my TN in this example.

Thanks for clearing this up!

I just didn't realize that only the first Raise counts and not if you get mutiple Raises.

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#37 Postby d4 » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:25 pm

daddystabz wrote:I just didn't realize that only the first Raise counts and not if you get mutiple Raises.

i'll admit that it can be a bit confusing. there are some rolls where multiple raises give cumulative benefits, and others where just getting any amount of raises gives one standard benefit. you have to read carefully.

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#38 Postby daddystabz » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:03 pm

HMM.......

Does anyone know right off which rolls get cumulative rolls and which get only the first Raise? I'll try to investigate also. I just want to make sure I'm right.

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#39 Postby Clint » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:00 pm

daddystabz wrote:HMM.......

Does anyone know right off which rolls get cumulative rolls and which get only the first Raise? I'll try to investigate also. I just want to make sure I'm right.


In Pirates (and not SW in general), off the top of my head...

Damage obviously.
Mass battle rolls.
And the Connections Edge has an extra benefit for a second raise, but not beyond that.

Really, other than damage, I think any other example is based on a special situation or ability. But like I said, that off the top of my head. I could be missing something, but I don't think so.
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#40 Postby Blackheart » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:19 am

I have another question regarding the rules, being about Wild Card trait rolls and modifiers.

If I have a modifer to my trait rolls, does this affect the Wild Die as well as the trait die? For instance, one of my players have d8 in agility and the Acrobat edge (+2 to agility tricks). When he performs an agility trick, does he:

Roll d8+2 and d6+2, and then pick the best result, or...

Does he roll d8+2 and a single d6 and pick the best result?


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