Houserules: evolutive Wild die

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alpasdebol
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Houserules: evolutive Wild die

#1 Postby alpasdebol » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:03 pm

Hi!

I was wondering how could be an evolutive wild die.

They are many debates about the power of the wild die in SW.
When PCs are novice it's very powerful and when they are Legendary the wild die is useless.

How about an evolutive wild die which would grow with the pcs?
Here is a proposition:
Novice = > D4
Seasonned => D6
Veteran => D8
etc.....

Is it too much? I'm wondering... :idea:

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#2 Postby FoxBlue » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:46 pm

I've found the wild die to be useful throughout. If you feel it is being overshadowed by a high skill you can take the master edge increasing it significantly.

Anyways, with acing the wild die in never useless. Even if you have a d12 skill you still roll less than four 25% of the time, having a d6 with a 50% chance of success can really help out when that does happen.

An important thing to remember is that generally in SW you are going to have a few skills that are your speciality and will be high and increase with levels, the majority of your skills won't go above d6 making the wild die very useful when they come into play.

I guess this depends on your style of play, my players tend to take d4 in a variety skills at character creation and have a few speciality skills at d8.
The idea being that a d4 at least lets them try to do things while they can more or less expect to succeed with their speciality skills. Also it's cheeper to buy new skills at character creation...

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#3 Postby Noshrok Grimskull » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:58 pm

I don't think the Wild Die is useless at Legendary.
In my Rippers game the PCs have just hit Legendary (or are just about to) and some have not raised more than 3-4 skills in total. I'm not even sure they all increased an attribute each rank. They just kept heaping on Edge after Edge.
And they are still totally capable of dealing with the things I throw at them.
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Re: Houserules: evolutive Wild die

#4 Postby blusponge » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:05 pm

alpasdebol wrote:Is it too much? I'm wondering... :idea:


WAAAAY too much. Remember, the base TN for an action is 4, regardless of rank. Difficultly does not scale in SW. The d6 wild die works just fine. Try playing a few games with it before you decide to go and overhaul the entire probability scheme.

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Re: Houserules: evolutive Wild die

#5 Postby Clint » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:02 pm

alpasdebol wrote:They are many debates about the power of the wild die in SW.
When PCs are novice it's very powerful and when they are Legendary the wild die is useless.


Hmm, I've never really heard any such debates, and the usefulness of the Wild Die is really completely unrelated to a character's Rank and has more to do with the die type of a specific Trait.

For example, a d6 Wild Die has more impact on a d4 Trait and less impact on a d12 Trait, but since characters can potentially have a d12 Trait at Novice and are almost guaranteed to have d4 Traits at Legendary (for unskilled rolls if nothing else), the effect is really independent of Rank.

Ultimately, basing the Wild Die on Rank would have an odd (not to mention unbalancing) effect of the system where a character's Rank becomes more important than their innate ability (their Trait die types). The cascading effects are so comprehensive I couldn't really calculate them all.
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#6 Postby fanchergw » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:23 pm

I think ultimately the effect of this change would be to make the character power advancement much steeper: Novices would be weaker than they are now, while Legendary characters would be significantly more powerful. For certain types of high fantasy or other very pulpy settings this might work well as a setting rule. (Note that you would then need to assign a Rank to all Wild Card NPCs and monsters/opponents, which is usually not done in SW.) However, I would not recommend making this change for most settings.

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#7 Postby Noshrok Grimskull » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:37 pm

Not only would Legendary characters be much more powerful, but aside from one or two key skills (basically those that you need to grab the Edges you want) you could just spend your starting points on d4's in loads of skills and never even bother to raise them - because you will get better in those ares with each Rank!
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#8 Postby ogbendog » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:06 pm

which is kind of how dnd 4e works, all skills go up gradually

You could do it that way in SW, the wild die getting bigger models the fact that adventures get better at skills. They still need to raise skills as prereqs for edges, or for parry.

and legendary scout with d4 notice and a d12 wild die is still not as good as one with d12 notice and a d12 wild die
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#9 Postby dugfromthearth » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:15 pm

as a character with few skills I find the wild die useful throughout my career.

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#10 Postby FoxBlue » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:46 pm

The "master" edge already lets you do this to an extent. Of course, it only applies to one skill and it's a legendary edge but that just goes to show how powerful of an effect changing the wild die is...

Once you get a skill to above d8 the wild die begins losing importance but it is still 1 extra chance to succeed which, in and of itself, is a very powerful effect...

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#11 Postby The GIT! » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:40 am

Personally I think the Wild Die is fine as is. The lower die types have more chance of acing whilst the higher die types have a better chance of success without the need to ace. The Wild Die sits neatly in the middle and has done some great things for my group (even the gunslinger with d12 shooting).

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#12 Postby alpasdebol » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:44 pm

ogbendog wrote:which is kind of how dnd 4e works, all skills go up gradually


Oh!! Well I think I will throw my SW books and go buy DND 4 :lol:

I'm agree with Clint except about one point: When you are à Legendary PC you've got more skills at 12 :wink:

The wild die is useful but, as a GM, I think it's too useful for unskilled test. When you're a novice you've got few chance to miss a test.
When you're a legendary PC you've got less untrained skills. So the wild die is still useful but lesser than when you're a novice :1eek13:

My suggestions are not balanced but I think that can work for a High pulp or fantasy Setting with VERY powerful characters :blam:

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#13 Postby ogbendog » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:56 pm

I don't think you'd have fewer untrained skills at Legendary. Since it bascially costs 2x as much to buy a new skill after char gen, I try to start with all the skills i'm going to want to have.

I do have few skills at d4 at higher levls, since I like to bring those up a bit
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#14 Postby Magnus » Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:24 pm

ogbendog wrote:I don't think you'd have fewer untrained skills at Legendary. Since it bascially costs 2x as much to buy a new skill after char gen, I try to start with all the skills i'm going to want to have.

I do have few skills at d4 at higher levls, since I like to bring those up a bit


I agree. I rarely buy new skills after Novice because from Seasoned onwards you get much more out of buying Edges rather than skills. I might improve on skills I already posses, but even that is usually just done to meet the prerequisites of some edge or other.

To OP: I think your "levelling up" of the wild die is a good and simple way to power up the game without fiddling with too much of the mechanics.

Magnus

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#15 Postby shadd4d » Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:41 pm

There's a rule in Realms of Cthulhu that scales it in the other direction, reducing initial bennies and wild die to certain ranks but doesn't boost it above "SW norms".

I disagree that it's a good way to power up the game, because now you have to assign a rank to opposing wild cards or to henchmen if you're using those rules to increase the punch of extras. While one setting does tie a statistic to rank (DL:R Grit), I don't think it would work to improve die rolls, for most of the reasons Clint mentioned.

I think it also maybe overstacks the deck in the favor of the wild cards as opposed to the extras.

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#16 Postby gatharion » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:46 am

I'm with the others and think that the Wild Die is just fine. Having that extra d6 to roll at Novice is a great boon and even when you hit Legendary it is FAR from useless.
Increasing the die type with each rank puts the game closer to D&Desq leveling power climbing wherein a high rank/level character becomes essentially superhuman when compared to "normal joes".

Speaking of superhumans, however, I have considered increasing the Wild Die for more powerful beings in superhero games.
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