Hit Points.

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ValhallaGH
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#21 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:28 pm

Gylthinel wrote:2 samurai face off. Neither is wearing armor as this is a duel. One is slightly tougher than the other (d8 vs d6) while the other is slightly more skilled. They proceed to hack away for about 20 rounds.
<snip>

I'm sure this sounds extreme, but it seems to happen any time we fight a foe who isn't a naked untrained peasant extra.

Given the math I show in my previous post, there aren't many explanations for this kind of thing actually happening.

Possible causes:
1) No Wild Attack. Without wild attack, odds of hitting drop to 39.7% (d10) and 60.0% (d12). Both will hit for 2d6+2 damage (minimum 4, average 10 - that will cause a Shaken 97.2% of the time on Toughness 5 and 91.7% of the time on Toughness 6), which will cause a Shaken almost all the time and average 1 wound on either warrior (average damage 10.2, 14.3 if hit with a raise). That will slow down the fight, but it should still go quickly.
2) Improbably bad dice rolls. I'm talking about miraculously bad dice luck (literally never rolls above 2 on any single die). That would be odd enough that it should have been mentioned.
3) Improper application of numbers. If a die roll equals the target number (parry or toughness) then the roll was a success (damage is rolled and Shaken is inflicted). Requiring rolls to exceed those numbers, not merely meet them, makes combat a lot more difficult.
4) Unmentioned penalties. Are there additional complicating factors that are not mentioned? If everyone is moderately drunk (Fatigued) then that -1 has a significant impact on the odds.


That's all I can come up with. It is always fun to see my player's faces when they ask if a 2 will hit and I say "yes". It's worth tracking the bonuses and penalties. :)
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Dylan S
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#22 Postby Dylan S » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:11 pm

When does a 2 hit?!

I can think of Unarmed, uh... no Fighting skill...
Hmm. Anything else? I mean on the defender's side of things, not the attacker's.

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tigerguy786
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#23 Postby tigerguy786 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:22 am

Dylan S wrote:When does a 2 hit?!

I can think of Unarmed, uh... no Fighting skill...
Hmm. Anything else? I mean on the defender's side of things, not the attacker's.


Shooting attack after aiming...

Master in shooting...

Wild Attack vs Parry 4...

Fighting attack with max Gang-up bonus...

There's a lot of places where it's really useful
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ValhallaGH
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#24 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:16 pm

Dylan S wrote:When does a 2 hit?!

Wild Attack (+2) and Gang Up Bonus (+1 to +4). That's up to a +6 attack bonus (melee). Versus a Parry 8, they hit on a 2+. :wink:

Improved Trademark Weapon, plus Marksman / Aim, making a ranged attack? That's a +4 if the character doesn't move, versus a TN 4. Even if the target is at medium range (-2) or prone (-2) or behind good cover (-2) or in the dark (-2) or the shooter is aiming for a limb (-2), the shooter still hits on a 2+.

If you know how to get bonuses, even an untrained combatant can murder things.
(Standard alley cut-throat has Fighting 0 (d4-2); versus a merchant in the dark, he has Unarmed Defender (+2), Wild Attack (+2), and potentially The Drop (+4), for a total attack roll of d4+6; that's good enough to stab the merchant (Parry 2 or 4) in the vitals on a roll of 2+ for dice +10 damage. Versus a Parry 8 veteran, he'll hit on a 2+ for dice +6. Without surprise, the target can arm himself and avoid the drop, putting the thug on d4 attack versus parry 8, and he wild attacked leaving himself wide open. Which is why cut-throats don't kill veteran soldiers that are remotely alert.)
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wheatiess
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#25 Postby wheatiess » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:45 pm

i do know what you mean if you play in a setting with high armour and magic items that increase parry sometime you are just rolling for your fighting roll to ace in order to hit.

one thing no one touched on. it is an epic duel between to elite swordsman. seen a good kung fu movie recently. the fight at the end always lasts for a few minutes(or tens of minutes) make sure your players are visualising the combat(either cinematic camera style or first person depending on how they roleplay) and the boardom creep will be much slower

as for the idea of the new system i think it would work as it only seems to be for player characters and important npc/enemies

but...

watch out for my epic rapid poke skill where i jab you ten times really quick and you keel over dead

your players may figure out that rapid wild touch attack may be more deadly in this system then anything else

maybe rather then using through the entier game you could save it for important duels where attirtion and indurace would be a factor. even base "DUEL HIT POINTS" (DHP) of vigour and make a few edges to increase

stoic duelist
this warrior know the art of staying in a fight and grits his teeth through the minor grazes the pile up in a fight
rather then having your vigour die in D.H.P. you have 2 time your vigour


PS most of the replies to this thread completely missed the point. if we are trying to create new ideas jumping into the traditional "your doing it wrong" is a crap way to go

ValhallaGH
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#26 Postby ValhallaGH » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:11 pm

wheatiess wrote:watch out for my epic rapid poke skill where i jab you ten times really quick and you keel over dead

your players may figure out that rapid wild touch attack may be more deadly in this system then anything else

But, what does the touch attack do? Unless you can poke him for an actual effect (like damage field), you're not going to do anything effective with the wild rapid attack ... besides leaving yourself wide open to counter attacks (-4 Parry).

It's a legitimate concern (+2 for touch attacks, +2 for wild attacks = +4 Fighting bonus) if the touch is going to do anything. But only if it's going to do something.
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