Star Wars Destinies (A full star wars conversion)

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perfidius
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#21 Postby perfidius » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:31 pm

johnnii wrote:
Bloodwork wrote:To fix saber damage and take away the Str component, why not just re-skin the Chainsaw from the core book? It even already has a rule for accidentally chopping your own bits off.


Spot on! Though i'd have an Edge that ignored the fumble part, ie Lightsaber training.


It's exactly what I used in my Savage SW sessions, and it worked perfectly. The "str dumping" could be an issue so; but i guess it's a small price to pay for simplicity. We also house ruled that anyone facing a lightsaber (without a lightsaber at hand) is considered "Unarmed", giving a nice +2 to lightsaber attack; it fits well the "cut-through-anything" part of the lightsaber.

And we created a new Edge, "Jedi training", which removes the fumble possibility of the chainsaw and allows to use the Defense action against ranged attacks.

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#22 Postby warrenss2 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:18 pm

Bloodwork wrote:Of course, and also add some AP.
And maybe make it a Heavy Weapon? I doubt it would ever do enough damage to bring down a Star Destroyer, but it could cut into bulkheads and stuff.
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Re: Star Wars Destinies (A full star wars conversion)

#23 Postby Takeda » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:43 pm

I've been reading some of the conversions again as I was inspired to do my own conversion … a few things came up.

Strength still matters with a Lightsaber because there is drag as you cut through stuff. Also you'll notice a number of times where lack of Strength allowed their opponent to knock there Lightsaber out of their grasp.

It would appear to be Str + d12 or maybe 2d6 but with AP 4, maybe higher. If you can cut down a 10" diameter tree in one swipe the base damage has to be enough to sever the tree regardless of AP. It's a very dangerous weapon for the non-Force User. Having a 1 in 6 chance of serious injury or death (say d6 Fighting) … most people would stay far away from it. Being an Edge Lightsaber Training would mitigate that … and you'd have to be Force Sensitive to take the training it seems to work.

In my mind having it provide a trained user to be able to use their Parry as the target to hit them with a Ranged Attack they're aware of seems to cover how they can stand and fight amongst a barrage of fire.

Perhaps Lightsaber Deflection as an edge allows any one shot (or two+ if you don't mind the MAP) to be deflected to a target using a Fighting Roll or Force might be better, with standard penalties for range being say 5/10/20.

Lots of options but I agree that making this crunchy is counter productive when we're talking Savaged Star Wars.

There are other Savage Worlds products that at Seasoned with three edges you can do the same Parry vs Ranged, the deflection is a genre-specific one and of course only versus energy weapons. In this example you could chalk it up to Force Sensitivity, Lightsaber Training, and maybe Trademark Weapon adding the Deflection as a side-benefit.

Another thought is as the 'Force Guides You' when wielding a Lightsaber your Fighting skill is capped at your Force skill. That way you don't have a bunch of Padawan with d4 Force and d12 Fighting tearing up the landscape. Kinda like fighting on horseback where it's the lowest of Fighting or Riding.

Lots to consider.

As for defending another vs ranged attack you simply put yourself in harms way and hope they don't roll over your parry, and if it really matters use Full Defense to hold off the onslaught.
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Re: Star Wars Destinies (A full star wars conversion)

#24 Postby SeeleyOne » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:17 pm

I don't know how useful it is, but an idea just hit me. Over the years there has been speculation as to how much damage a lightsaber can do. There are scenes cited as reference, such as cutting through a door or chopping a tree in half. Many of those instances can be considered to be "stunts". They are not done all of the time, but only specific, noteworthy instances. Chopping a tree in half is one thing; axes can do that. So AP 4 is probably fine. There are several of ways to go with this, and I list a few:

1. More damage seems to be the most common method, and may or may not be what is desired. Personally it seems to me to be overkill (literally at times. :) ). A lightsaber duel becomes rocket tag, which while it fits the movies, is not very fun to play. Hit = kill, move along.

2. Maybe some things can be taken as Edges and/or Powers. Is it the lightsaber doing it? Or is it the lightsaber in conjunction with the Force? If it is just the lightsaber, it can be argued that anyone can theoretically learn how to do it, so it seems to me that it is in conjunction with the Force. If you want to be good at chopping things (such as trees) get an Edge or a Power for doing it. The lightsaber is just the Trapping.

3. Another idea, which goes back to my "stunts" thought above, goes to doing something that I have seen in some Edges and in some other games. Spend a benny to perform a stunt. You want to chop through trees for a turn (or a scene) spend a benny and you can do it. You want to cut through that door? Again, benny-time and you can. This idea can also be added to idea 2 above, where you pay a benny to gain a use of an Edge or Power.
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Re: Star Wars Destinies (A full star wars conversion)

#25 Postby DoctorBoson » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:06 pm

SeeleyOne wrote:I don't know how useful it is, but an idea just hit me. Over the years there has been speculation as to how much damage a lightsaber can do. There are scenes cited as reference, such as cutting through a door or chopping a tree in half. Many of those instances can be considered to be "stunts". They are not done all of the time, but only specific, noteworthy instances. Chopping a tree in half is one thing; axes can do that. So AP 4 is probably fine.

Specifically with regards to taking out a tree, comparing it to an axe isn't really a fair comparison. An axe can chop a tree in half, sure, but not in one swing. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of strength, to take a tree down. From what we've seen in the movies, taking out a tree like that can be done in one swing by accident. When I'm dealing with lightsabers, I bump up the AP a lot to show how easily they chop through just about anything they touch; generally 10 (which cuts through almost any standard sci-fi armor, and only seriously heavy power armor or other specialized suits can really push back much).

There are several of ways to go with this, and I list a few:

1. More damage seems to be the most common method, and may or may not be what is desired. Personally it seems to me to be overkill (literally at times. :) ). A lightsaber duel becomes rocket tag, which while it fits the movies, is not very fun to play. Hit = kill, move along.

Lightsabers actually have pretty consistent damage output, from what I can see. If you get hit, you're probably going to be Shaken. If you get in a really good hit, you're probably taking a wound or two. Increasing damage too much, however, is a pretty poor way to go about it because it creates that kind of rocket tag setup that you have there.

Personally, how I handle a standard lightsaber is simple: Str+d10, AP 10, Heavy Weapon, and does +d10 damage on a raise instead of +d6, with a minimum Strength of d6. In addition, you can use Touch Attacks with them, dealing only their damage die (+d10 on a raise as usual). Furthermore, enemies are considered Unarmed Defenders unless they also have either a lightsaber, vibroweapon, or some other special weapon (like cortosis blades). Rolling a 1 on the Fighting Die, however, leaves them Shaken, and a critical failure leaves them with a wound. (There's also the standard Lightsaber Training Edge, making your Parry the TN to hit you with handheld laser blasters and eliminating the penalty for rolling a 1.) This means for an untrained user is at risk if using the lightsaber, and any foe that is using one is immediately identified as a threat.

It also means that any hit isn't an instant kill for the average d6 Strength attacker (maybe a wound, depending on the dice), but a Raise is extremely lethal, particularly to Extras. This particularly helps replicate what we saw towards the end of the newer movie, with characters being Shaken by any hit, and trained users having a significant advantage over the untrained, but being relatively equally matched against other Force users.

It also opens up levels for actual Force powers or other Edges, as well as letting you save your bennies for other uses.
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Re: Star Wars Destinies (A full star wars conversion)

#26 Postby Jounichi » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:08 pm

Well if you want to go by the Science Fiction Companion, a lightsaber would be a Str+d10 with AP:4 and do heavy weapon damage with no minimum strength requirement. It's a decent place to start, so I'd caution against adding too much AP or else armor literally becomes meaningless and you've created a deus ex machina weapon. I wouldn't worry about minimum strength and weapons flying because a disarm still requires a strength roll against the damage suffered to avoid dropping the weapon, and the disarming needn't be literal unless you want to introduce Gritty Damage with lightsabers.

The companion also has melee weapon enhancements to simulate vibro and force weapons, which is fantastic. I do like the idea of lightsabers being able to deal touch damage, but it's more flavorful than meaningful. Locking sabers and burning someone's shoulder with part of the blade could just be getting past their parry for minimal damage and not a full swing or stab. At the very least I'd add a minimum stat requirement of some kind (like Agility) to avoid damaging yourself if you roll a 1. Think along the lines of the Chinese weapons from The Flood PG. Usually it's one die type higher than the listed damage, so a Str+d10 lightsaber would mean Agility d12. I know that sounds high, but someone who is Force sensitive could have a lower requirement.

Personally I like the idea of having the three types of Force Powers (Control, Sense, and Alter) being different schools to learn as you advance; not unlike AB:Magic from 50 Fathoms. Some powers might even belong to multiple schools, but unlike 50 Fathoms you need to know all the member schools in order to learn the power. The exact list escapes me, but I remember the old Star Wars d6 broke it up that way and someone's probably compiled something online. For that matter, the later editions (Wizard's of the Coast and Fantasy Flight) likely do the same.
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Re: Star Wars Destinies (A full star wars conversion)

#27 Postby Takeda » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:20 pm

Good points for sure.

Having Sense, Control, and Alter as schools seems the thing. When you take AB Force you get to pick one that you can use without penalty, much like the Blessed from Deadlands otherwise. You can use all powers that aren't Unique or Rare but you take a penalty if it's not your forte.

I'm still ruminating on a bunch of ideas but currently sick as a dog so just in those moments I'm not coughing up a lung, etc.
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Re: Star Wars Destinies (A full star wars conversion)

#28 Postby SeeleyOne » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:48 pm

A rule that I just polished off could work for Force Sensitivity. I added a sixth attribute, in my case I just called it Arcane. Its purpose is to help defne, in game terms, the effect of an individual's natural talent. "He is strong in the Force" or "He has a strong aptitude for magic" or the psionic ratings from Babylon 5, or whatever.

Then I made the psionics/spellcasting skill be like Knowledge skills, where you assign a trapping, or in your case the Alter, Sense, and Control. Those skills would use the arcane attribute. In my case I made them be the trappings, so the trapping is in the skill and not the power.

Another thing that I did is that I allow people to use powers that they do not officially know. They spend a benny and use the lower of their knowledge Arcana skill and the spellcasting die. But going to what you said that some powers are a combination, you would use the lower of the different skills involved instead. I do not know if you want to bother with a knowledge arcana skill, but it works with the Force, too. :)

Also, since the attribute is essentially an edge/attribute, and using different specialty skills is a nerf anyway, I give an additional 5 PP per die step above d4. You are basically buying the Power Points edge with attribute points. :)

This rule helps to provide a system that fits the Dresden Files, Codex Alera, and even the different Force skills.
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Re: Star Wars Destinies (A full star wars conversion)

#29 Postby Takeda » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:18 pm

Hmm, interesting ... I kinda think it's based upon the Spirit of the Force Sensitive but here's a method.

Strong in the Force [WC, Force Sensitive, Spirit D8]
Benefit: Begins play with a +1 to Activate Force Powers. Even rare powers can be activated.
Note: Based upon midichlorian count so cannot be purchased after character creation.

Powerful in the Force [WC, Strong in the Force, Spirit D10]
Benefit: Begins play with an additional +1 to Activate Force Powers. Even rare or unique powers can be activated.
Note: Based upon midichlorian count so cannot be purchased after character creation.

So VERY few people will start with either of them. But those that do will be powerful!
Dean: "Ya' know she could be faking."

Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"

[Dean nods]

Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"

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Re: Star Wars Destinies (A full star wars conversion)

#30 Postby Takeda » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:23 pm

"A lightsaber could cut through virtually anything, from enemies to blast doors. The only ways to block the incoming attack of a lightsaber was with an electrostaff, Z6 riot control baton, an object made of a metal known as Phrik, or another lightsaber." (From Wookiepedia)

I was thinking too that only some things can Parry a Lightsaber ... as you get a bonus of +2 Fighting against an unarmed defender, that instead of giving that bonus against any target who is wielding a weapon that can't block them, that if the Lightsaber wielder misses by 2 or less they hit your weapon, likely destroying it. If you have the Force Weapon power in use (Smite presumably) it becomes as resistant as a Lightsaber so this doesn't apply. Also ... that a Lightsaber is really quite light ... it's meant for quick fencing-type maneuvers ... thus:

Lightsaber Str+d10, AP 4, Wt: 2, Notes: Parry +1, HW
Further if an untrained wielder (does not have: Lightsaber Training as an Edge) rolls a 1 on their Fighting Die (regardless of the Wild Die) they hit themselves. Further, if you attack a wielder of a Lightsaber with a weapon that isn't Lightsaber-resistant if you miss by 2 or less your weapon takes damage as it made contact with the Lightsaber.

The other thing ... perhaps the miss-chance causing injury is eliminated in the Force-Sensitive ... because otherwise injuries would be rampant until you had the Edge ... but the Lightsaber Defense gives you the Deflection ability. Further ... like Qui-Gon-Jin cutting through the blast doors, first round he begins by plunging his lightsaber in, now he has a small hole, starts working it around for a bigger hole, ... takes time, concentration but it could be done. Without a Heavy Weapon you couldn't really damage the Blast Doors at all.

Still working on my conversion. Lots of possibilities ... any feedback is appreciated!
Dean: "Ya' know she could be faking."

Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"

[Dean nods]

Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"

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