Using d14s Instead of d12+1, etc.

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Thunderforge
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Using d14s Instead of d12+1, etc.

#1 Postby Thunderforge » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:24 pm

I recently ran into a Kickstarter for d14s and d18s, the two dice that aren't commonly available. It made me wonder, could you run Savage Worlds where instead of capping out at a d12 and just adding a static modifier when you go over you instead continued to increase with these polyhedral dice. For instance, perhaps your Necessary Evil brick doesn't have Strength d12+3, but instead has a d18 in Strength.

Anybody ever try this?
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Haroth
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#2 Postby Haroth » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:58 pm

I think that increasing the die type would ruin the real benefit of 1d12+1, which is consistency. A d14 would have the same average as a d12+1, but with a chance for a 1 and 14 in the mix. Personally, I would take a d12+1 over a d14 any day of the week. It's more beneficial to only miss on a 1 or 2 than it is to ace on a 14 instead of a 12.

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#3 Postby Lord Inar » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:20 pm

...and don't forget that if the d12+1 is accompanied by a wild die, then the wild die gets the +1 as well!

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#4 Postby Mylon » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:38 am

I do prefer the idea of d14 over d12+1. While d12+1 offers more consistency, it really just feels like a kludge to deal with the limited offerings of dice. That is, there are other means of obtaining flat bonuses like Trademark weapon or professional edges.

My ideal (computer) RPG system would be to have a target number based on the difficulty and a composite skill based on a number of factors, including linked attribute, primary skill and synergy skills. Then the computer rolls 1d(difficulty rating) versus 1d(composite skill). Making the difficulty rating variable provides the same effect of exploding dice without the quirkiness of d6s being better at rolling 8s than d8s.

Savage Worlds is a nice compromise that's actually manageable in tabletop. Though if d14s-d18s were common, I think the game could do with a small bump to target numbers. Maybe making 5 for a success and 10 for a raise the status quo. d12 represents 2 raises on 12 currently. d20 would represent 4 raises on a 20!

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#5 Postby Snate56 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:38 am

I believe Gamescience or Koplow already make such dice.
There's even d3's, d5's, & d7's.



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#6 Postby SeeleyOne » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:52 pm

Thanks, I just became a backer for the project. I am thinking that changing the success to 5 and raises on 5's is a good idea. I like multiples of 5 better than I like 4's anyway.
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#7 Postby Cutter XXIII » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:12 pm

This has actually come up a few times before... :wink:
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#8 Postby Snate56 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:31 am

Like Cutter said.
I remember finding these before and thinking the same thing, then promptly dropped the idea as being too much work for practically no gain. The game works fine as it is.




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#9 Postby Lord Inar » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:09 am

One last bit of grist for the mill.

As the die type increases, the character statistically becomes less special when compared to an extra as the effect of the Wild Die becomes diluted. Having d12+1 also add +1 to the Wild Die mitigates that effect a bit.

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#10 Postby Mylon » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:02 pm

Lord Inar wrote:One last bit of grist for the mill.

As the die type increases, the character statistically becomes less special when compared to an extra as the effect of the Wild Die becomes diluted. Having d12+1 also add +1 to the Wild Die mitigates that effect a bit.


If d8 is average, then the wild die becomes d8 as well.

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#11 Postby amerigoV » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:08 am

Lord Inar wrote:...and don't forget that if the d12+1 is accompanied by a wild die, then the wild die gets the +1 as well!


Hmm, that is a new one to me. We just had characters that hit Legendary in a campaign for the first time so it has not come up much (other than an occasional Boost Trait).

I do not have SWD handy - is that explicitly written or is that an interpretation?

(I know if you have a bonus to a roll from circumstance that you add to both dice, but I did not know if you have a raw score of d12+n that the +n goes to the wild die as well. I was mentally treating it is "d14" and "d18" - ie, an inherent part of the Trait die).
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#12 Postby Zadmar » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:16 am

amerigoV wrote:(I know if you have a bonus to a roll from circumstance that you add to both dice, but I did not know if you have a raw score of d12+n that the +n goes to the wild die as well. I was mentally treating it is "d14" and "d18" - ie, an inherent part of the Trait die).

See here:

Clint wrote:All modifiers apply to the higher die result whether it is the Trait die or the Wild Die, without exception.

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#13 Postby Jordan Peacock » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:47 am

Past a certain point, I prefer the +1 over a wider-ranging die. There's a certain point where having a ridiculously high trait should mean certain minimum expectations of performance. If you're up past d12, I think a flat bonus is perfectly fine; that trait is supposed to be remarkable.
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