New Edge for Pacifist Jedi

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zamboni
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New Edge for Pacifist Jedi

#1 Postby zamboni » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:14 pm

I am building some pre-gen PC's for a game I am running at GenCon. One of the characters is a pacifist Ithorian Jedi. I want him to still be interesting in combat so I was going to give him a couple leadership edges and the healing power, but I also wanted to give him an ability that would allow him to "talk down" his opponents, basically a trick using persuasion vs. the opponents smarts or spirit.

I wanted to make an edge called "Adept Negotiator" (I stole this name from the Star Wars SAGA rules) that allows him to get a +1 or +2 to his persuasion checks, but i wondered if this is too powerful.

Also, do you have any other thoughts about how to make a pacifist interesting in combat?

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#2 Postby VonDan » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:19 pm

You must include in the rules that the player must wave there hand in front of the DM and intone a phrase to enforce his point of persuasion




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#3 Postby Zadmar » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:47 pm

zamboni wrote:I wanted to make an edge called "Adept Negotiator" (I stole this name from the Star Wars SAGA rules) that allows him to get a +1 or +2 to his persuasion checks, but i wondered if this is too powerful.

Don't forget that Charisma is added to Persuasion and Streetwise, and there are already three edges that each give +2 Charisma. So +2 Persuasion isn't going to be very appealing, unless you add some additional benefit (like the Peace Monger edge from Sundered Skies, which gives +2 Persuasion and also allows you to affect multiple targets at once).

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#4 Postby zamboni » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:52 pm

Interesting, I forgot about Charisma adding to Persuasion. I will have to think about giving him one of those. Also, that Peace Monger edge sounds perfect.

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Re: New Edge for Pacifist Jedi

#5 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:15 pm

zamboni wrote:I am building some pre-gen PC's for a game I am running at GenCon. One of the characters is a pacifist Ithorian Jedi. I want him to still be interesting in combat so I was going to give him a couple leadership edges and the healing power, but I also wanted to give him an ability that would allow him to "talk down" his opponents, basically a trick using persuasion vs. the opponents smarts or spirit.

See Snake-Oil Salesman from Deadlands: Reloaded.

You can make Persuasion tests of will (versus Smarts), and get +2 to all non-combat Persuasion and Streetwise checks.
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#6 Postby Snate56 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:44 pm

What trick? You are using Persuasion.



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#7 Postby zamboni » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:44 am

Well, I know that using a trick doesn't normally include Persuasion, but I thought that it would be flavorful for a jedi pacifist to be able to do the same thing as a trick but with the persuasion skill.

I was going to make it an Edge so that it wasn't too overpowered.

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#8 Postby chillburn » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:37 pm

Why not do what you're looking for with access to powers?

The Fantasy Companion has several powers that might fit the character model. Don't want to post copyrighted material, but in brief (hopefully this is OK):

Bless/Curse - gives a trait bonus/penalty to all in MBT (Battle Meditation-type power)
Confusion - Smarts or be Shaken (could be repurposed to be more "convinced" than shaken)
Pummel - knocks all targets in cone 2d6" and prone (not exactly pacifist, but does no damage, and very Force Slam-like)
Sluggish Reflexes - forces targets to take multi-action penalty for all actions (another one that could be repurposed to where the targets lose the urge to fight)

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#9 Postby chillburn » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:09 pm

Along the same Jedi questions line:
How would you do the classic Mind Trick?
I was thinking about using Puppet but reducing the cost and making it only work for a single command.

Or maybe it could be straight Puppet, but if you try make them do something particularly violent or "evil" then dark-side rules take effect..?

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#10 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:05 am

chillburn wrote:Along the same Jedi questions line:
How would you do the classic Mind Trick?

I used a specific edge.
Jedi gets to make a Persuasion check, that ignores Charisma, has a +4 bonus, and needs to be only reasonably worded to be acceptable. The target never questions their actions.
Downside? Only works on extras.
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#11 Postby zamboni » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:19 pm

For Mind Trick we are using a "Use The Force" Skill roll opposed by a smarts roll. In combat it works like a Test of Wills and out of combat I rule it on the fly.

Balancing the force powers is definitely the most difficult part I have found with Savage Star Wars. Outside of that Savage Worlds it seems to go hand in hand with the action-y fun feel of Star Wars.

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#12 Postby chillburn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:04 pm

My concern about having Force Trick or Mind Trick not be a power is that then it becomes almost too easy to use. With no power points or (since I'm using No Power Points rules) vigor roll I'd worry about it being used too much (and unless used really maliciously there's no real reason for me to rein it in).

For Force Trick I used Legerdemain from the Fantasy Companion. Basically it lets you take any action you could normally take at up to Smarts inches away (or something like that). So:

Move (small) Object - Ranged Strength roll
Mind Trick (the distract someone to look left while you go right) - Ranged Smarts Trick
Force Sense (to see who is outside the door) - Ranged Notice roll (though this one is limited to living objects as a trapping)

Not perfect, but I think it gets me what I'm looking for.

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Just a thought

#13 Postby NOESKANE » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:43 pm

His!

Have you check'd this out?

http://www.savageheroes.com/conversions ... rs-6.0.pdf



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#14 Postby chillburn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:13 pm

Yes. I'm planning to use a lot of it, but wanted to do my own take on the Force (closer to SWD, with trappings). Plus I had to design a totally new AB for "Flow" users (something unique that I made up for my campaign).

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#15 Postby zamboni » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:51 pm

Yes, I am using tons of stuff from that document too. It is amazing, but I too am going a different direction with the Force. I would use it for an ongoing campaign, but I felt for a one shot convention game it felt a bit too rules-y to me.

#1 What I am doing is trapping the current Deluxe powers as force powers.

#2 I didn't like the idea of the PC's running out of Power Points so I am trying a thing that I remember prom playing Star Wars Miniatures, where some of the Force Users had Force Points that regenerated by 1 or 2 each round. So each PC will start combat with 3 Force Points that regenerate 1/round to a maximum of 5.

I'm planning on playtesting this next weekend so I'll see if it actually works.

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#16 Postby chillburn » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:06 am

zamboni wrote:#2 I didn't like the idea of the PC's running out of Power Points so I am trying a thing that I remember prom playing Star Wars Miniatures, where some of the Force Users had Force Points that regenerated by 1 or 2 each round. So each PC will start combat with 3 Force Points that regenerate 1/round to a maximum of 5.

I'm planning on playtesting this next weekend so I'll see if it actually works.


I'd look at the "No Power Points" optional rule from SWD. That's what I'm planning on using.

Please post how the session goes. I'm wrapping up my Savage Warcraft game next weekend (group gets to fight Deathwing and cause the Cataclysm :) ) and then I'll be diving into my own Savage Star Wars game.

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#17 Postby chillburn » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:08 am

On a slightly related topic, how would folks handle a (friendly) lightsaber duel? Canon that I've read says dueling is part of training (they gotta get uber with those lightsabers somehow...) but that:
- using the Force during duels is generally not allowed (unless agreed upon earlier)
- injuring your opponent is VERY frowned upon (shows lack of control on your part).

So, short of two characters just trying disarms until one succeeds, how could this be handled?

EDIT: This is predicated on the idea that just doing non-lethal damage with a lightsaber is a bit far-fetched and not really an option within the setting.

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#18 Postby zamboni » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:27 am

What if you did "non-lethal damage", but flavored it in such a way that the attacker restrains himself, or stops just short of slicing into his opponent. You could say that a roll of one on the fighting die (regardless of the Wild Die) means that the character didn't stop in time and actually did some damage to his opponent.

That puts a bit of risk into. I would think enough to make it feel tense. Especially if you used the injury table on page 69 of the SWD rule book.


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