[DLR] Fear levels and monsters

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Kaspar
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[DLR] Fear levels and monsters

#1 Postby Kaspar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:00 am

I you guys help on something :)

I was looking through my Deadlands Reloaded book trying to find out whether you add both the penalty from the location (Fear level) and the monsters Fear to Guts roles?

If the posse encounter a Fear (-2) monster in a location with Fear level 3, is the modifier to the Guts role -5?

Thanks for the help

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#2 Postby McCurmudgeon » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:04 am

That sounds about right assuming fear levels are treated the same as in deadlands classic

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Re: [DLR] Fear levels and monsters

#3 Postby Cutter XXIII » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:49 am

Kaspar wrote:If the posse encounter a Fear (-2) monster in a location with Fear level 3, is the modifier to the Guts role -5?

That's correct.

Keep in mind, though, that for d20 rolls on the Fear Effects Table, you add only the Monster's Fear penalty as a bonus, not the local Fear Level. (So, using your example, if the Guts roll is failed add +2 to the d20 roll.)

I did that wrong for a few years and caused a lot of heart attacks. :-D
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#4 Postby SteelDraco » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:04 am

As I recall, they also add their current Grit to that Guts check, so they'll always get at least a +1. It's usually not quite the same as the local fear level but it helps.

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#5 Postby PlatinumWarlock » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:08 am

Also, keep in mind that a player only needs a single success (not a raise or such) to stave off being Shaken.

Between that and the Grit modifier, the posse is usually only at a slight disadvantage when in really terrifying areas.

Even facing a really nasty creature (Fear -2) creature in an outright Deadland (-6), it's still entirely possible for a moderately experienced party to avoid being Shaken. True Grit and Agent/Texas Ranger help this, as does a solid Spirit die.
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#6 Postby Kaspar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:48 am

PlatinumWarlock wrote:Also, keep in mind that a player only needs a single success (not a raise or such) to stave off being Shaken.

Between that and the Grit modifier, the posse is usually only at a slight disadvantage when in really terrifying areas.

Even facing a really nasty creature (Fear -2) creature in an outright Deadland (-6), it's still entirely possible for a moderately experienced party to avoid being Shaken. True Grit and Agent/Texas Ranger help this, as does a solid Spirit die.

My party are all seasoned, one of them also being a Texas Ranger, giving them a Grit of +2 and +3. I plan to have them run into a creature with a -2 Fear modifier in a Fear level -3 location, and I think the -5 is a bit high, but if that is the rule I will follow it.

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#7 Postby GranFalloon » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:00 pm

Fear checks are pretty rough, to be sure. They're also well worth spending bennies on, so as long as your group has a reasonable chance of making the roll, a single benny should do the trick for most of them.

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#8 Postby PlatinumWarlock » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:09 pm

Kaspar wrote:My party are all seasoned, one of them also being a Texas Ranger, giving them a Grit of +2 and +3. I plan to have them run into a creature with a -2 Fear modifier in a Fear level -3 location, and I think the -5 is a bit high, but if that is the rule I will follow it.


Well, lets do some math to put things in perspective.

Let's assume that your average posse member has a d6 Spririt (considered average in SW) and has a Grit modifier of +2. The Grit modifier negates the creature's fear rating, so we're left only with the -3 from the location.

Essentially, a PC in this position only has to roll a 6 in order to succeed on the fear check, even though they technically need to roll a 7. 7, in essence, becomes our target number, as 7-3=TN 4.

Because a 6 on the d6 will always explode, the 7 is gained automatically. The odds of rolling a 6 on a single d6 are just a hair under 17%, though we get to roll 2d6 independently, raising our odds to 1/3, without spending any Bennies.

Should we spend a white fate chip, our odds increase to 2/3, as we get a second set of independent 2d6. A red or blue chip, used to add a d6 value almost guarantees certainty, provided that snake-eyes isn't rolled (1/36 odds of that).

Mind you, this is all assuming an average PC in your game who hasn't buffed Spirit beyond the normal human average and has no Edges that contribute to avoiding fear or the like. Any shaman, blessed, or martial artist in your posse likely has a higher Spirit die, and Agents/Rangers get that flat +1 modifier to Grit.

I agree that the Fear effects can be brutal, but you're not really sticking it to the PCs by including the rules as written. If its something that's really worrisome, push them towards taking edges like True Grit or Élan (from SWD). Just remember, it is a horror game, after all. You're not doing it right if there's not a posse member with hot yellow fear running down their leg!
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#9 Postby Kaspar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:14 pm

PlatinumWarlock wrote:
Kaspar wrote:My party are all seasoned, one of them also being a Texas Ranger, giving them a Grit of +2 and +3. I plan to have them run into a creature with a -2 Fear modifier in a Fear level -3 location, and I think the -5 is a bit high, but if that is the rule I will follow it.


Well, lets do some math to put things in perspective.

Let's assume that your average posse member has a d6 Spririt (considered average in SW) and has a Grit modifier of +2. The Grit modifier negates the creature's fear rating, so we're left only with the -3 from the location.

Essentially, a PC in this position only has to roll a 6 in order to succeed on the fear check, even though they technically need to roll a 7. 7, in essence, becomes our target number, as 7-3=TN 4.

Because a 6 on the d6 will always explode, the 7 is gained automatically. The odds of rolling a 6 on a single d6 are just a hair under 17%, though we get to roll 2d6 independently, raising our odds to 1/3, without spending any Bennies.

Should we spend a white fate chip, our odds increase to 2/3, as we get a second set of independent 2d6. A red or blue chip, used to add a d6 value almost guarantees certainty, provided that snake-eyes isn't rolled (1/36 odds of that).

Mind you, this is all assuming an average PC in your game who hasn't buffed Spirit beyond the normal human average and has no Edges that contribute to avoiding fear or the like. Any shaman, blessed, or martial artist in your posse likely has a higher Spirit die, and Agents/Rangers get that flat +1 modifier to Grit.

I agree that the Fear effects can be brutal, but you're not really sticking it to the PCs by including the rules as written. If its something that's really worrisome, push them towards taking edges like True Grit or Élan (from SWD). Just remember, it is a horror game, after all. You're not doing it right if there's not a posse member with hot yellow fear running down their leg!

It sounds brutal, but I really want to incorporate the horror feeling more than I have done so far in our game.

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#10 Postby Cryonic » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:38 pm

PlatinumWarlock wrote:Well, lets do some math to put things in perspective.

<snip>

Because a 6 on the d6 will always explode, the 7 is gained automatically. The odds of rolling a 6 on a single d6 are just a hair under 17%, though we get to roll 2d6 independently, raising our odds to 1/3, without spending any Bennies.


Not quite 1/3. The actual odds are 11/36 chance of success ~= 30.5% rather than 33%.

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#11 Postby Clint » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:55 pm

Kaspar wrote:It sounds brutal, but I really want to incorporate the horror feeling more than I have done so far in our game.


Well, the creature with the -2 modifier is really going to do that. That's really the key here, that -2 means the creature is really darn scary. In a world full of scary things.

Just remember...

It's a world of slaughter
A world of fears
It's got jackalopes
In a world of tears

There's so much that can scare,
That it's time we're aware
It's a Shane world after all!

There is a new moon
And I just saw Stone
And his smile means
We will soon be prone
Though we might try to hide
That dead dude doth abide
It's a Shane world after all

It's a Shane world after all
It's a Shane world after all
It's a Shane world after all
It's a Shane's pain world!
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#12 Postby The One » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:03 am

Can I count that song as one of those scary things please?
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#13 Postby catalac » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:59 pm

lol i love it.

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#14 Postby GeorgeTDS » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:14 am

What happens if my posse meets the same fear causing creatures in different scenes? Do they still have to make a fear roll every time the turn the corner, or should I assume that they more or less are acclimatized to the creature in question?

In my particular case, I am running the adventure "For Whom the Whistle Blows" and my posse is about to enter Pickman.

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#15 Postby Cutter XXIII » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:22 am

As is pointed out below, look at Becoming Jaded in Savage Worlds for guidance.
Last edited by Cutter XXIII on Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#16 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:10 am

It's worth re-reading the Core Rules Fear rules, especially the "Becoming Jaded" section. By those guidelines, you might require a Guts check for the first couple of monsters, but no more checks until something extra freaky happens.

Have fun!

Aside: Cutter's answer is very revealing about how he runs Deadlands, and why his play stories always seem to involve a large number of heart attacks and character deaths. :wink:
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#17 Postby GeorgeTDS » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:03 pm

Right on, thank-you guys. I am having a hard time deciding if I want to cackle with maniacal glee or feel sorry for my table when I feed them to their first real monsters!

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#18 Postby GranFalloon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:36 pm

Clint wrote:It's a world of slaughter
A world of fears
It's got jackalopes
In a world of tears

There's so much that can scare,
That it's time we're aware
It's a Shane world after all!


Just how long have you been waiting to bring that one out?


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