A couple quick questions about .pdf products

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JmOz01
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A couple quick questions about .pdf products

#1 Postby JmOz01 » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:26 pm

Ok,

Back in the day you granted a site licence to purchases of .pdf's (allowing you to print up to give to your players), this was of cource limited to your group. I have a few questions about this:

1) Do you still do this, I cannot find one way or another on the site about it

2) Assuning yes is it just the players version or can you print up the first section of the setting for the PC's?

While some people I know would not care for an offical answer, I tend to be VERY concerned about such things. Thank you for your time

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#2 Postby Cryonic » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:06 pm

IIRC the permission to print copies for your group should be on the same page with the rest of the copyright notice (usually part of the Library of Congress information) inside the PDF itself.

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#3 Postby JmOz01 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:16 pm

Looks like you are right...

Also looks like it is not part of the "full book" versions of settings, wonder if I could get permision for my slipstream game...

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Clint
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#4 Postby Clint » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:05 pm

The various Player's Guides PDFs are the ones that contain a site license to print a copy for each player, that being the purpose of them obviously.
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#5 Postby jpk » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:45 pm

Before I just pop off an answer, let me double-check a thing or two right quick.
Joel Kinstle
Pinnacle Entertainment, www.peginc.com

JmOz01
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#6 Postby JmOz01 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:40 am

take your time Joel, I appreciate you looking into it

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#7 Postby jpk » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:25 pm

I now have an answer, and an admission.

First, the player's guides, including the PDF of the new Deadlands Player's Guide, continue to have the site license that allows you to print enough copies for your players.

Honestly, with the two-book version of Deadlands, we had some internal debate about the site license. We did the splitting to save players money, but it somehow feels as if we're losing sales now. Our ill-defined feelings were no match for customer service and convenience, so we decided to include the usual site license after only marginal debate.

Since the Player's Guide book is so much more affordable than in the past, we'd love to see more of you pick up the book rather than rely on the site license, but we're not curtailing our printing policy to force you to do so.

Secondly, my admission. When we introduced the single-file books that were their own printer-friendly versions, the change eliminated a production step. That happened to be the step where the printing statements were inserted into the PDFs, and I didn't realize they'd fallen out of the books. Now that I do, I'll update the workflow so it's not an issue in the future, and I'll see about updating the existing layered single-file PDFs to reintroduce the printing rights statement. Sorry about that, folks.
Joel Kinstle

Pinnacle Entertainment, www.peginc.com

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#8 Postby JmOz01 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:52 pm

Thanks for the information, and understandable on all fronts, even if not overly helpful for my intentions.

I assume if I wanted to write up a 1-3 page information package on the setting for my players that would be okay still?

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#9 Postby jpk » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:53 pm

JmOz01 wrote:I assume if I wanted to write up a 1-3 page information package on the setting for my players that would be okay still?


That would be quite okay. Go wild! ;-)
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#10 Postby mac40k » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:00 am

While I certainly don't speak for Pinnacle, the Player's Guides are nothing more than the first XX number of pages of the complete book packaged separately at a lower price, labeled Player's Guide, with the copy permission notice. There is no real difference in printing out the same XX number of pages from the complete books to hand out to your players, other than the the fact that purchasing the PG legally gives you the right to do so. I've purchased a couple of PG's in the past because I wanted to legally hand out copies and support PEG by giving them a bit more of my money, but not everyone can be expected to do so.

If anything, a split book format probably results in more sales since all groups need at least one copy of both books, whereas before, with a single book, PEG had to rely on their customers' honesty to actually purchase the PG for the site license vs. just buying one setting book in pdf and printing the player's portion out from it. Furthermore, the way the books were arranged, the PG has all the setting info and rules such that if a group wasn't interested in the PPC, the PG was all you really needed, possibly cutting into core book sales rather than augmenting them (DLR being an exception, since it has no PPC to begin with). Also, people that might have bought their own printed copy of a PG in the past, couldn't even if they wanted to since the only options were whole book in DTB or pdf of player's guide.

My totally uninformed speculation is that after PEG turned Wiggy loose and saw how successful he was with Hellfrost, they started to rethink how they've traditionally done things in the past.

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#11 Postby Clint » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:48 am

mac40k wrote:Also, people that might have bought their own printed copy of a PG in the past, couldn't even if they wanted to since the only options were whole book in DTB or pdf of player's guide.

My totally uninformed speculation is that after PEG turned Wiggy loose and saw how successful he was with Hellfrost, they started to rethink how they've traditionally done things in the past.


Well, absolutely no reflection on Wiggy or his success, but no, that's wasn't really related to the decision at all. Mostly, it was more about the success of Deadlands and the first sentence above. We found a lot of players of Deadlands were buying their own physical copy of the book even though they didn't need the Marshal material. Rather than have them pay $50+ for a second printing with the same unusable material for them, the Player's Guide was split off as a hardcopy for $25. There were other factors, but that's probably the primary one.
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#12 Postby Spence » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:59 pm

Hello out in Savage Land!

I had a question and then found this thread already in play so...

I am gearing up a PotSM game (I have the main book in hard copy) so I just bought a copy of the Players Guide (I also have the PG's for Slipstream, Sundered Skies and Rippers) and noticed that the PotSM PG doesn't have a site license (the rest do).

For Players Guides I don't usually print a copy for each player, instead I have two copies for the table when we play. My personal position is that if a player likes the game and wants a 'permanent take home' copy, paying for the PDF players guide is not too much to ask, but that's me.

That said, was the omission of the site license in PotSM intentional? Am I good to print two copies? Or only one?

Like JmOz01, I tend to be a stickler on these things.

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#13 Postby jpk » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:49 am

Consider all our Player's Guides to contain the site license.
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