Some Pirates of the Spanish Main questions

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So these questions and answers don't disappear...

We need a poll...
1
20%
...with two options.
4
80%
 
Total votes: 5

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Jordan Peacock
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Re: Cargo capacities of ships

#61 Postby Jordan Peacock » Tue May 20, 2008 7:42 pm

CleanCutRogue wrote:It says on page 116 that a 2 mast ship "can carry more cargo in a single haul."


(Edited to remove facetious details and make for a shorter post.)

I really hope you'll get a different answer than I did, but basically what I was told was, "No, that's just the way it is." I've tried comparing the various ship sizes and types to try to figure out any "progression" between them, but just when I think there's some logic to it, I run into something that breaks the imagined "rule." Basically, near as I can tell, that's just the way it is.

For example, consider the lowly 1-masted ship, costing $15,000, with 2 guns (worth $6,000 total). Notice the "sloop" package which adds to the Top Speed and adds 2 more guns ... with no increase in Cost, and absolutely no drawbacks whatsoever. If you're going to have a 1-masted ship, making it a sloop is practically a no-brainer. I mean, if you really wanted to have a 1-masted cargo-hauler, just turn around and sell off those two extra guns and convert the space into an extra cargo slot. For a sloop, the total cost is $15,000, but $12,000 of that value is for the guns alone!

None of this really causes any problems until you have players paying close attention to the ship stats, considering how much money they have in their "ship's purse," and trying to figure out the best ship to get (and the best way to fit it) for their meager earnings.

For my own campaign, I have little choice but to just go with it. Nothing quite beats having players go through stats with a fine-toothed comb, but when the numbers are in print, even if it were changed in "errata," it'd be a pain to have the players mark up all their books.
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#62 Postby CleanCutRogue » Tue May 20, 2008 11:48 pm

*sigh*

I'm the first one to raise the banner in the name of simplicity and abstraction for game rules... I fight that battle all the time on my own site... but this is just too silly for words. My players for this game are quite young, and I hope they won't pay too close attention to this blatant annoyance...

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Re: Cargo capacities of ships

#63 Postby Wiggy » Wed May 21, 2008 4:37 am

JordanPeacock wrote:
CleanCutRogue wrote:It says on page 116 that a 2 mast ship "can carry more cargo in a single haul."


(Edited to remove facetious details and make for a shorter post.)

I really hope you'll get a different answer than I did, but basically what I was told was, "No, that's just the way it is." I've tried comparing the various ship sizes and types to try to figure out any "progression" between them, but just when I think there's some logic to it, I run into something that breaks the imagined "rule." Basically, near as I can tell, that's just the way it is.


Well, I actually can't give a 100% honest answer as Simon invented the ship stat blocks. However, I can say that they were directly based on the CSG ships, which gave us our base blocks. This is why you get some weird results, but it's in keeping with the game on which the RPG is based.


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Re: Cargo capacities of ships

#64 Postby Jordan Peacock » Wed May 21, 2008 6:50 am

Wiggy wrote:However, I can say that they were directly based on the CSG ships, which gave us our base blocks.


Now that brings up something I was wondering about: How about if there were a quick formula to "convert" ships from the CSG to Savage stats? By "converting," I do not mean, "a pure and true representation of the CSG, balanced in every way," but rather, "a quick if messy way to come up with new and interesting encounters for the PCs, based on the big stash of CSG cards you've got on hand."

After going on a spree and ending up with far more Pirates cards than I "need," I've been steadily going through and trying to use every single one of them in some way in my campaign. ;) I've been using the cards to inspire me in my choices of Edges and Hindrances, but it's hard to figure out a direct "translation." Even though it might work at odds with the existing templates, it'd be interesting if there were some sort of formula.

For example ... the point cost of the ship is taken, xN, to get the ship's value in pieces of eight. Top Speed/Handling = (see chart for conversion from "S," "S+S," "L," etc. to Pirates RPG values ... with modifiers based on keywords such as "schooner"). Toughness = (see chart for value based on number of masts, modified by certain keywords). Average crew Shooting skill = (see chart for value based on average mast die values). Edges = (add certain Edges if certain keywords are on the card). Guns = # of masts x 4 (modified by certain keywords, ship types, etc.). Wounds = # of masts (modified by certain ship types, such as turtle ships or catamarans).

I could probably whip up something myself, only it'd inevitably be horribly imbalanced and would need to go through the rock-tumbler of playtesting to get all the rough edges worn off.

But if the stats given in the Pirates RPG were somehow actually derived from the ships in the CSG, it'd be really cool to see what method was used for that.
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#65 Postby steelbrok » Wed May 21, 2008 9:03 am

I'd like to second that, a quick and dirty cards to RPG conversion would be very useful

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#66 Postby steelbrok » Wed May 21, 2008 9:04 am

Good Grief, I finally became seasoned!

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Re: Cargo capacities of ships

#67 Postby Clint » Wed May 21, 2008 11:15 am

Wiggy wrote:
JordanPeacock wrote:
CleanCutRogue wrote:It says on page 116 that a 2 mast ship "can carry more cargo in a single haul."


(Edited to remove facetious details and make for a shorter post.)

I really hope you'll get a different answer than I did, but basically what I was told was, "No, that's just the way it is." I've tried comparing the various ship sizes and types to try to figure out any "progression" between them, but just when I think there's some logic to it, I run into something that breaks the imagined "rule." Basically, near as I can tell, that's just the way it is.


Well, I actually can't give a 100% honest answer as Simon invented the ship stat blocks.


Well... he had help. ;)

I honestly don't recall this question coming up before, but maybe I just missed it (it happens, sorry). Anyway, yeah, the 2-Mast ship should have a base Cargo of 6 not 4.
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Re: Cargo capacities of ships

#68 Postby Jordan Peacock » Wed May 21, 2008 11:59 am

Clint wrote:Anyway, yeah, the 2-Mast ship should have a base Cargo of 6 not 4.


Huzzah! My players will be overjoyed to find out that they now have room for MORE STUFF. (Once it's taken into account that of those 4 Cargo spaces, 2 have to be set aside for Provisions and Gunpowder/Shot, that means that this effectively DOUBLES the space they have for conventional cargo - or for carrying extra lumber for repairs, etc.)
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