Withdrawing from Combat

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Do you include the withdrawal rules when GMing an SW game?

Of course! What a dumb question.
7
29%
Yes, because I think they are necessary.
14
58%
Yes, but only under certain circumstances -- not as written.
2
8%
Rarely.
1
4%
No, because it slows things down too much.
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No votes
 
Total votes: 24

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Nailom
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#21 Postby Nailom » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:19 am

HawaiianBrian wrote:Another, related question:

So say you're squared off against five opponents. All of them are adjacent to you, even if that means diagonally. All five "withdraw" at the same time. Do you get five separate attacks? Or just one?


You get five.

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#22 Postby Blackheart » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:49 am

I agree. It may sound ridiculous, but you get five attacks (btw, how often would five guys fighting one retreat?).

As far as I've concerned in the "withdrawing-from-combat-using-a-spear" discussion, I would say the character is leaving Melee - no matter the range of his weapon - unless he is also attacking his opponent after his movement... Furthermore, if he retreats from 1" range (where he can attack his opponent but the foe cannot strike back due to his shorter reach), this will obviously not provoke a free attack.

... But I may be wrong - perhaps this would nerf Spears a bit?

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#23 Postby AFDia » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:11 am

DerFinsterling wrote:
AFDia wrote:Summary: A guy with Reach1+ can retreat from any melee without inflicting a free attack.
Is this true? (this would make the staff more powerful for wizards and in combination with first strike, this would be a very good tactic)


Yes, it is - although some GMs may ask the player to space it out over two rounds, ie, round1 move one inch back, rouind 2 leave melee.
Otherwise you're really just leaving melee and since the actions happen so quickly, your opponent would still get a free attack.


Perhaps this would be the best solution because otherwise there is an edge in PotSM called Lunge which would allow you to retreat with every weapon without suffering a free attack.

An easy rule could be something like "You can retreat your Reach without suffering a free attack". This way you can use the "First Strike Tactic" and your teammates can replace you in combat (therefore it would work like the 1" retreat rule of d&d)

... but is this the official handling for Reach? ;)

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#24 Postby Clint » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:27 am

Markus had it right (probably remembers my explanation from before on the forum ;)).

If the spear user moves more than their Reach from an opponent during a single action, then they have left melee and any opponent they were adjacent to in that round gets a free attack.

Remember a character's actions during a round are pretty much simultaneous, so effects are based off that. The system allows for the freedom to break down those "individual" actions as the player wishes (such as move then attack, attack then move, move a bit then attack then move a bit more, and so on...) but that's because while it may change a situational effect, it (typically) does not change the effect of the actual action.

Wow, that feels unclear. Hope it makes sense.

Ultimately, "leaving melee" can simply be defined as, "If at any point during your chosen movement for the round neither you nor your opponent would be capable of making a melee attack on each other."

Congratulations, you just left melee. :)
Last edited by Clint on Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#25 Postby AFDia » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:44 am

Thank you Clint.

I will simply edit "Whenever a character retreats from melee more than his weapon's reach in inches, all adjacent non-Shaken opponents get an immediate free attack" into the Withdrawing paragraph. This should be enough to avoid misunderstandings. :)

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#26 Postby DerFinsterling » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:16 am

Clint wrote:Markus had it right (probably remembers my explanation from before on the forum ;)).


Well, I only steal from the best ;-)
I thought I saw you explaining it before, but couldn't find it with one or two quick tries.

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Re: Withdrawing from Combat

#27 Postby Rossetti1981 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:48 am

Clint wrote:If the spear user moves more than their Reach from an opponent during a single action, then they have left melee and any opponent they were adjacent to in that round gets a free attack.


I found this post searching for retreat and reach. When the spera user turn is something like - move away & heal yourself - there is no problem is setting up a free attach from caused by his retreat.
But What if: a spear user is facing a sword user.
It is the turn of the spear guy.

1) he moves at the limit of his reach
2) attack the sword user
3) move away from melee...

Based on the quote of Clint the sword guy has the right of a free attach.. but WHEN? It is quite important to resolve the actions in the right sequence, as both the attach of the spear man and the attach of the sword man can kill the opponent stopping the sequence...

between 1 and 2? But the spear user is still in melee (he is going to attack as soon as stop moving).. this is not (jet) a retreat
between 2 and 3? But how can he do this... the spear user is too far for his sword.

I'm I missing something? Thanks!

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Re: Withdrawing from Combat

#28 Postby Zadmar » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:11 am

It would occur at the beginning of step 3, as the spearman begins to withdraw from close combat. Actions are resolved one after the other by the players, but it's assumed that all actions for each turn are really taking place nearly simultaneously. Thus the spearman would appear to be attacking while withdrawing from melee, and the swordsman would take a swing (free attack) while the spearman retreats.
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Re: Withdrawing from Combat

#29 Postby Jounichi » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:11 am

Rossetti1981 wrote:
Clint wrote:If the spear user moves more than their Reach from an opponent during a single action, then they have left melee and any opponent they were adjacent to in that round gets a free attack.


I found this post searching for retreat and reach. When the spera user turn is something like - move away & heal yourself - there is no problem is setting up a free attach from caused by his retreat.
But What if: a spear user is facing a sword user.
It is the turn of the spear guy.

1) he moves at the limit of his reach
2) attack the sword user
3) move away from melee...

Based on the quote of Clint the sword guy has the right of a free attach.. but WHEN? It is quite important to resolve the actions in the right sequence, as both the attach of the spear man and the attach of the sword man can kill the opponent stopping the sequence...

between 1 and 2? But the spear user is still in melee (he is going to attack as soon as stop moving).. this is not (jet) a retreat
between 2 and 3? But how can he do this... the spear user is too far for his sword.

I'm I missing something? Thanks!

All actions taken by a player are announced before rolls are made so the GM can assign any necessary penalties. In this case, the attack with the spear is happening mid-movement during a contiguous retreat; so the guy with a sword (or other non-reach weapon) gets in a parting shot. Unlike some other systems, it doesn't entirely matter how you break up the movement.
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Re: Withdrawing from Combat

#30 Postby kronovan » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:19 am

For the sake of expediency, I don't track whether an adjacent opponent engaged in combat with a withdrawing character for determining the free attack. I don't because I've noticed at other GM's tables where the has-to-have-melee-attacked rule is in effect, the free attacks are often missed. There are the occasional situations where a character is unintentionally adjacent to an opponent that doesn't attack them, but IMO the +2 defend and moving equates to something almost as good as the expeditious retreat/disengage in editions of D&D. I've never had a player complain about my approach.

And for what it's worth, I've implemented my version of the SWD Withdrawing from Close combat rule as well as the defend and move away in the Dragon Age RPG, which has no such rules in RAW (defend is +5 due to attacks always being 3d6+mod's) and it's worked very well.

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Re:

#31 Postby Jonah Hex » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:29 pm

Clint wrote:
If the spear user moves more than their Reach from an opponent during a single action, then they have left melee and any opponent they were adjacent to in that round gets a free attack.


Ultimately, "leaving melee" can simply be defined as, "If at any point during your chosen movement for the round neither you nor your opponent would be capable of making a melee attack on each other."

Congratulations, you just left melee. :)


Okay, so both of these probably sum up the effect of reach on withdrawing from combat more elegantly than anything I've seen. What I don't understand is how in 8 1/2 years neither of these have been added to the core rules.
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