***Rules Questions for SW Settings***

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#501 Postby Clint » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:16 pm

Psy-Kosh wrote:Oh dang, sorry, there was one last thing I meant to ask and forgot: Growth and clothing/armor, does it follow? (I assume "depends on the trappings") and probably less variable: Z-belt and growth? Does that work, or is it considered to only be able to extend the field around human sized entities? (if not, then really large could wrap the belt around their arms or something?)


It's the GM's call depending on the trappings, but in general, I wouldn't allow the Z-belt to work anymore than any other armor would "fit" them. I'd limit the Z-belt to a 1 point Size variable unless the character has one especially designed for the larger size (where I would double the cost for each point of Size).
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#502 Postby Clint » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:41 pm

fanchergw wrote:1. Does the captain/pilot count toward the minimum required crew? I.e. if the Crew rating is 6+10, then can the required 6 be the captain and 5 other crew (as long as they all have at least d6 in Boating)?


Yes, the captain and/or pilot do count as part of the crew.

fanchergw wrote:2. What are the modifiers (other than range) for ship-to-ship cannonfire? Are there any adjustments due to the size or relative size of the ships? Are large ships such as those commonly found in 50 Fathoms considered Unstable Platforms? For example, let's say a Galleon has caught a Skiff on the open seas and pulls up alongside for a Broadside. What modifiers does each ship have to their Shooting rolls to hit the other with their cannon(s)?


Other than situational modifiers (range, darkness, concealment, etc.), each gunner would only face the Unstable Platform penalty. Size isn't a factor for hitting ships.

fanchergw wrote:3. Same question for people using their own weapons to fire on another ship (assuming it's in range). Modifiers for size? Aiming at parts of the ship, such as mast, sail, rudder? Unstable Platform?


Unless they have a weapon that does Heavy Damage, it doesn't really matter. :wink:

The key here in both of these situations is that there is no such thing as the ship firing at another ship. It's the character firing from the ship (whether using a cannon or something else).

If you want to add Size modifiers or Called Shots for attacks on ships, it's possible; it will just get a bit more complex (and typically, it will all come out in the wash as they say).

For Size, it's easy. In all cases, it's a man-sized attacker (the character firing the weapon) attacking the other ship. To detemine the modifier, subtract the Armor value from the ship's Toughness and then compare to this chart...

Less than 11 = 0
12 to 16 = +2
17+ = +4

For Called Shots, merely determine the modifier proportional to the ship itself (any Size bonus will adjust for variance compared to a human-sized target).

For instance, a specific cannon would be a Tiny Target (-6) on a Man of War, but with the size modifier (+4), it would come out to a -2 to hit.

Anyway, that's just an option; officially, size doesn't matter. :wink:
Last edited by Clint on Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#503 Postby fanchergw » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:14 pm

Thanks for the answers, Clint!

Clint wrote:The crew "operate the ship's sails, rigging, and so on..." (page 27). The captain and pilot don't count.

We weren't sure if "... and so on..." included operating the helm/rudder. So does that mean that even small boats like a Dinghy (rowboat) or Wave Rider (sailboard) require a captain/pilot AND a crewman? Are there no boats that can be fully operated by just one person?

Clint wrote:Other than situational modifiers (range, darkness, concealment, etc.), each gunner would only face the Unstable Platform penalty. Size isn't a factor for hitting ships.

We had kind of assumed that any ship capable of carrying cannon would qualify as Large, and the big ones - perhaps those with 16 cannon or more - would qualify as Huge. This seems roughly in keeping with what you posted further down.

Yet more questions: :roll:

4. If using the standard Chase rules to handle ship combat, do the Top Speed and Acceleration values have any effect, or are they only important when using the more detailed vehicle Movement rules from pg. 98 of the core rules?

5. Since there is a +1 for every 10" of difference in current speed, how is this calculated for ships in a Chase? Travel Speed times Range Increment (50")? Top Speed times Range Increment? Something else?

6. Are all parts of a ship assumed to have the full listed Toughness (Armor)? For example, is it just as hard to damage a sail (made of canvas) with a Called Shot as it is to damage the hull? If not, how tough is a sail?

Thanks again,

Gordon

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#504 Postby Clint » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:50 pm

fanchergw wrote:
Clint wrote:The crew "operate the ship's sails, rigging, and so on..." (page 27). The captain and pilot don't count.

We weren't sure if "... and so on..." included operating the helm/rudder. So does that mean that even small boats like a Dinghy (rowboat) or Wave Rider (sailboard) require a captain/pilot AND a crewman? Are there no boats that can be fully operated by just one person?


Hmm, good point. The wave rider is definitely a single person craft. Looking at the small boats, I'd have to reverse that. A captain and/or pilot would count as part of the Crew.

fanchergw wrote:4. If using the standard Chase rules to handle ship combat, do the Top Speed and Acceleration values have any effect, or are they only important when using the more detailed vehicle Movement rules from pg. 98 of the core rules?


Mostly there, but see the nest question.

fanchergw wrote:5. Since there is a +1 for every 10" of difference in current speed, how is this calculated for ships in a Chase? Travel Speed times Range Increment (50")? Top Speed times Range Increment? Something else?


Actually, it's +1 per 10" of difference of Top Speed not current speed. That's where it comes in.

And, no, it won't come up often, but it can with effects that can raise (magic) or lower (magic or damage) Top Speed.

fanchergw wrote:6. Are all parts of a ship assumed to have the full listed Toughness (Armor)? For example, is it just as hard to damage a sail (made of canvas) with a Called Shot as it is to damage the hull? If not, how tough is a sail?


Dude! You want an optional rule for an optional rule??? :lol: :wink:

Seriously though, I'd treat a sail like a limb shot that can bypass armor. The toughness is still high, but not because the sail is tough, instead because it is tough to damage. A cannonball knocking a hole through a sail isn't going to have an appreciable effect unless it hits just right. Chain shot might, but it has specific rules for what it does.

Anyway, I think you can just take the basic Called Shot descriptions and apply them to ships. A -2 could bypass armor and perhaps have a special effect, a -4 could do +4 damage, and a -6 could do +4 damage and bypass Armor. Note that I wouldn't allow "bypass armor" to necessarily counter Heavy Armor as that's not exactly how it works for the ships.

Hope this helps!
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#505 Postby fanchergw » Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:28 pm

Clint wrote:Actually, it's +1 per 10" of difference of Top Speed not current speed. That's where it comes in.

And, no, it won't come up often, but it can with effects that can raise (magic) or lower (magic or damage) Top Speed.

I wasn't sure, since pg. 98 under Vehicle Attacks says "current speed" and pg. 104 under Speed say "Top Speed. And you're saying Range Increment doesn't play into it. So that means that only a Dinghy, with its Top Speed of 2, is likely to have to deal with this short of magic and/or Critical Hits.

Clint wrote:Dude! You want an optional rule for an optional rule???

Seriously though, I'd treat a sail like a limb shot that can bypass armor. The toughness is still high, but not because the sail is tough, instead because it is tough to damage. A cannonball knocking a hole through a sail isn't going to have an appreciable effect unless it hits just right. Chain shot might, but it has specific rules for what it does.

Anyway, I think you can just take the basic Called Shot descriptions and apply them to ships. A -2 could bypass armor and perhaps have a special effect, a -4 could do +4 damage, and a -6 could do +4 damage and bypass Armor. Note that I wouldn't allow "bypass armor" to necessarily counter Heavy Armor as that's not exactly how it works for the ships.

Sorry, I'm just funny that way... :(

Actually, this came up because our fire mage was casting Bolts in an attempt to light the pirates' sail on fire. We figured a sail should be flammable, and it didn't seem reasonable that he shouldn't be able to affect it just because his spell wasn't a Heavy Weapon. Ultimately, the GM ruled that no wounds were done, but he gave us a roll as described on pg. 97 under Spreading to see if it caught. It did, which ultimately led to the powder store blowing and crippling our ship, which had been grappled by then. :o

Thanks,

Gordon

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#506 Postby Clint » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:00 pm

fanchergw wrote:I wasn't sure, since pg. 98 under Vehicle Attacks says "current speed" and pg. 104 under Speed say "Top Speed. And you're saying Range Increment doesn't play into it. So that means that only a Dinghy, with its Top Speed of 2, is likely to have to deal with this short of magic and/or Critical Hits.


Um, these are two completely different rules here.

The rule on page 98 is about the penalty to attack rolls for relative speed.

The rule on page 102 (not 104) is about the bonus to the vehicle skill roll for having a higher Top Speed than your opponent.


fanchergw wrote:Actually, this came up because our fire mage was casting Bolts in an attempt to light the pirates' sail on fire. We figured a sail should be flammable, and it didn't seem reasonable that he shouldn't be able to affect it just because his spell wasn't a Heavy Weapon. Ultimately, the GM ruled that no wounds were done, but he gave us a roll as described on pg. 97 under Spreading to see if it caught. It did, which ultimately led to the powder store blowing and crippling our ship, which had been grappled by then. :o


I'd agree that the spell at least had a chance to set the sail on fire, but if I may ask, why didn't he just double the cost to make the bolt a Heavy Weapon? If he had enough points to cast multiple bolts, he'd have enough to cast half that many as Heavy Weapons.
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#507 Postby fanchergw » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:12 pm

Clint wrote:The rule on page 98 is about the penalty to attack rolls for relative speed.

The rule on page 102 (not 104) is about the bonus to the vehicle skill roll for having a higher Top Speed than your opponent.

So how do you calculate "current speed" for attack rolls? (Sorry about the page number issue, I'm going by my copy of the original printing, which has them on the pages I quoted.)

Clint wrote:I'd agree that the spell at least had a chance to set the sail on fire, but if I may ask, why didn't he just double the cost to make the bolt a Heavy Weapon? If he had enough points to cast multiple bolts, he'd have enough to cast half that many as Heavy Weapons.

We weren't aware of that rule; apparently we overlooked it. I see now that it's in the 50 Fathoms book at the end of the magic section under Trappings. I'll try to remember that for future sessions. (Age has trashed my memory. :( )

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#508 Postby Clint » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:28 pm

fanchergw wrote:So how do you calculate "current speed" for attack rolls? (Sorry about the page number issue, I'm going by my copy of the original printing, which has them on the pages I quoted.)


Not a problem. I just wasn't sure which way to go, or if separating them explained things.

For Chases, I think I would use the same system of Top Speed for attack roll penalties, since in a chase situation, the whole purpose is to go as fast as possible.

A GM might allow that to be ignored if one ship can Tail the other since at that point it would just be a straight shot.

fanchergw wrote:We weren't aware of that rule; apparently we overlooked it. I see now that it's in the 50 Fathoms book at the end of the magic section under Trappings. I'll try to remember that for future sessions. (Age has trashed my memory. :( )


I know what you mean. Why just the other day... well, something happened related to this, but now I forget what it was. :wink:

Hope this clears up all your questions! If not, we'll be here. :D
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#509 Postby Noshrok Grimskull » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:14 pm

Evernight:
If a character with one or more Bloodstones dies, can those Bloodstones be 'recycled'? That is, can others take and use them? My guess is no, but I want to make sure...
"If you think I'm crazy, you should see the people I'm locked up with." - Steamdriven

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#510 Postby Clint » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:58 am

Noshrok Grimskull wrote:Evernight:
If a character with one or more Bloodstones dies, can those Bloodstones be 'recycled'? That is, can others take and use them? My guess is no, but I want to make sure...


Considering the nature of the merge, "officially" I would say the blood stone "dies" as well.

However, you could use this option. When the character dies, shuffle the deck and draw a card for each blood stone.

White blood stones "survive" (can be used by another) on a Joker.

A red blood stone survives on a draw of a Jack or better, but doing so turns it into a white blood stone.

Thus white blood stones are in a way "undead." :wink:

Could make for an interesting Savage Tale where a mage who has discovered this fact is attempting to "harvest" white blood stones using a supply of red ones and some innocent villagers as hosts. :twisted:
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#511 Postby Noshrok Grimskull » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:02 am

That is sooo evil... yet sooo cool! :twisted:
Thanks. Consider it stolen. :wink:
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#512 Postby razorwise » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:57 pm

Hello.

I saw it mentioned that wizards can double up their PP to cast their spells as Heavy Weapons in 50 Fathoms, but I can't find the passage in question.

Can you give me the page number?

Thanks,

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#513 Postby DerFinsterling » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:33 pm

Page 47, trappings for the spells from the SWRB.

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#514 Postby Clint » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:51 pm

DerFinsterling wrote:Page 47, trappings for the spells from the SWRB.


Actually, that's page 45 of 50F.
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#515 Postby DerFinsterling » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:58 pm

I meant the Player's Guide. ;-)

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Necessary Evil questions: Speed/Pace, Force Control AE

#516 Postby BTNewman » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:37 pm

Clint wrote:The Leaping power can be combined with the character's normal Pace.


Does using the Leaping power count as an action or is it a free action? If it's a free action, can you just keep turning it on and Leaping over and over and over again until you've gone around the world before even taking one action? Yes, I have rules lawyer players.

When there are modifiers to Pace, such as being wounded or encumbered,
do you add/subtract first or multiply first? I.E., if a character has base Pace of 6, Speed x4, and -2 for wounds, is their pace ((6x4)-2) = 22 or ((6-2)x4) = 16?

You said that Speed counts as Running. Does it also count as an action like Running does?

If you have Force Control with a Medium Burst template, can you define the "bubble" to be smaller than that around you? Can you make it just on top of your skin? Or must it be at the maximum radius whenever it's on?

With Force Control on a Medium Burst template, with a d12+2 Strength and Flight, if you put the "bubble" around someone else and carry them along, is that valid? Can the other person attack out of the bubble? Can the other person voluntarily leave the bubble, or must the bubble generator let them out, or must they drop the bubble entirely to redefine who's in and who's out?

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Re: Necessary Evil questions: Speed/Pace, Force Control AE

#517 Postby Clint » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:09 pm

BTNewman wrote:Does using the Leaping power count as an action or is it a free action? If it's a free action, can you just keep turning it on and Leaping over and over and over again until you've gone around the world before even taking one action? Yes, I have rules lawyer players.


A character can only use one type of movement in a round. While using one form of movement is a free action, combining it with other forms means they count as normal actions.

So a character can only Leap once, but he could combine it with running but that would count as a normal action for Multi-Action Penalties.

BTNewman wrote:When there are modifiers to Pace, such as being wounded or encumbered,
do you add/subtract first or multiply first? I.E., if a character has base Pace of 6, Speed x4, and -2 for wounds, is their pace ((6x4)-2) = 22 or ((6-2)x4) = 16?


Just subtract from the total. The effect is pretty much negligible at higher levels.

BTNewman wrote:You said that Speed counts as Running. Does it also count as an action like Running does?


Nope. As I mentioned, it pretty much makes Running a free action. In short, the character's normal move is Running.

BTNewman wrote:If you have Force Control with a Medium Burst template, can you define the "bubble" to be smaller than that around you? Can you make it just on top of your skin? Or must it be at the maximum radius whenever it's on?


Well, the MBT Modifier just allows the character to use the other abilities of Force control in that area. For a "field" around the character, they need to Force Field Modifier. If the character has that, then they can automatically create a protective field around one person, and if they also have the MBT, then they can do that as well.

Ultimately though, the MBT cannot be adjusted. For any use, it always affects the entire area. The GM could possibly allow the character to buy the Selective Modifier (+2) to choose who in the area is affected.

BTNewman wrote:With Force Control on a Medium Burst template, with a d12+2 Strength and Flight, if you put the "bubble" around someone else and carry them along, is that valid? Can the other person attack out of the bubble? Can the other person voluntarily leave the bubble, or must the bubble generator let them out, or must they drop the bubble entirely to redefine who's in and who's out?


First off, the MBT doesn't automatically create a "bubble." It just allows the character to use the effects he has in a larger area, affecting multiple targets. If the Force Control has enough Strength to carry someone, then they may be carried along. With a MBT, the character could potentially carry multiple people, but Force Control would have to have enough Strength to carry them all as a whole.

The only way to create an enclosed "bubble" would be to have the Force Field and MBT Modifiers as mentioned above. In which case, the rules for Force Fields apply for attacks and people passing through the field.

Hope this helps.
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#518 Postby fanchergw » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:07 am

Sorry, but I've got a few more 50 Fathoms questions. The rules for Cabin Fever, Carousing and Contacts on pg. 34 of the Player's Guide aren't entirely clear to me.

1. Carousing costs 1d6 * $5 per night, and one night resets the clock for Cabin Fever. How much time on land/in port would it take to reset the clock without Carousing? A week? A month?

2. If the characters don't Carouse, does time on land/in port count toward the 30-day clock for Cabin Fever? For example, if the characters have a land adventure that takes several days, how does that affect the Cabin Fever countdown?

3. Removing a point of Fatigue due to Cabin Fever requires a week of Carousing at a total cost of 7d6 * $5? That's a lot of money. Can this be accomplished by spending more time and less money?

4. Similarly, gaining a +1 to Streetwise also requires a week of Carousing at a total cost of 7d6 * $5?

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#519 Postby Clint » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:29 pm

fanchergw wrote:1. Carousing costs 1d6 * $5 per night, and one night resets the clock for Cabin Fever. How much time on land/in port would it take to reset the clock without Carousing? A week? A month?


I'd say a week of relaxing just as for removing a level of Fatigue.

fanchergw wrote:2. If the characters don't Carouse, does time on land/in port count toward the 30-day clock for Cabin Fever? For example, if the characters have a land adventure that takes several days, how does that affect the Cabin Fever countdown?


It would just stop while they are not "at sea," but it wouldn't reset unless they had time to relax.

fanchergw wrote:3. Removing a point of Fatigue due to Cabin Fever requires a week of Carousing at a total cost of 7d6 * $5? That's a lot of money. Can this be accomplished by spending more time and less money?


Actually, removing a point of Fatigue requires a week of relaxation during which the character must Carouse at least one night at a cost of 1d6 x $5.

They don't have to Carouse every single night, but it should be done at least once. If they don't want to do it at all, I'd double the time to two weeks of relaxation sans Caorusing.

fanchergw wrote:4. Similarly, gaining a +1 to Streetwise also requires a week of Carousing at a total cost of 7d6 * $5?


Again, it just takes a week of hanging out in port with at least one night of actual Carousing.

Hope this clears things up.
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#520 Postby Toa » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:31 pm

Evernight:
Shouldn't the Spiders have the "Claws: Str+X" ability? The way they are now they are considered unarmed (and therefore attackers gain a bonus in melee against them) and only do Strength damage (which isn't much to begin with).


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